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Diana2002
August 21st, 2017, 04:24 AM
Hello everyone!

I've been meaning to ask, how do you feel regarding the whole PC culture and SJW?
Is it a good thing? Does it work or does it do more harm than good?

Jinglebottom
August 21st, 2017, 04:40 AM
The VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise

This is more of a debate than news, so it is better suited here.

Living For Love
August 21st, 2017, 05:16 AM
It is not a good thing, it does not work and it does more harm than good.

SJWs are people who promote socially progressive views, something you could at first consider to be a good thing, yet most of the times, SJWs seek some kind of personal victimisation or justification for their own failure or inability to achieve something, and promote those views not due to conviction that they can actually work or be good to society, but rather because it suits their own personal needs. SJWs are basically a reflection of how our society has become so whimsical and capricious, blindly following and believing anything we see and acting mainly upon our emotions rather than thinking objectively about things.

Stronk Serb
August 21st, 2017, 06:28 AM
Self righteous preachers who preach about tolerance and freedom of speech as long as it's what they like. Everything else gets labelled 'racist', 'sexist', 'bigoted'...

Mars
August 21st, 2017, 07:00 AM
The actual idea behind it, to support and promote "socially progressive views" is not bad. It's actually a very good thing. However, like previous users have said, a lot of times the actual person is the problem and they get way out of hand in their claims and accusations.

They make funny compilations though :P

Babs
August 21st, 2017, 02:09 PM
They have bizarre obsessions with being a victim, and an adversarial relationship with anyone even slightly right of the absolute furthest left one can be. Most of their problems are made up shit or conspiracy theories. My sister literally believes that the government put lead in Flint's water for no reason other than because they hate black people like.. ??????????

Nobody is innately a victim. In my country, even with social stigmas, everyone is on the same legal standing so anyone can do whatever the fuck they want if they put the work into it. I'm responsible for my own success and failures, I'm not a victim.

I would say that it does more harm than good because when a black nationalist shot dead a couple of innocent cops and stamped it with #BlackLivesMatter, it was condoned by masses. I also think it's disgustingly condescending to tell blacks/gays/women/trannies etc. what their problems are. "BUH YOURE OPPRESSED!!!!!" fuck off

PlasmaHam
August 21st, 2017, 02:27 PM
They are great for laughs.

But yeah, what Babs basically said.

Porpoise101
August 21st, 2017, 04:05 PM
Hello everyone!Hello
I've been meaning to ask, how do you feel regarding the whole PC culture and SJW?
Is it a good thing? Does it work or does it do more harm than good?PC culture ain't bad. In fact there is another word you likely know it by: politeness. Adhering to standard social values and expectations in order to minimize social chaos is a good thing in my opinion. Sure, there are times to ruffle feathers, but being vulgar or insensitive for no reason should be looked down upon.

And in the case of SJWs, they don't really exist in any concerted way off the Internet. They are insignificant and not that important in the greater political realm. That being said, these college students are pretty cringy. That is about it.

jamie_n5
August 21st, 2017, 07:42 PM
Things have gotten so out of hand here in the USA. Now last week suddenly all Civil War statues and plaques and things need to go. What the fuck are all these activists thinking. The Civil War is a part of our American history just as much as the war with the British for our freedom as an independent country. Are we to forget about what happened to the Native Americans with things like the Little Big Horn and all of the slaughter of their kind. Or WWI or WWII. People fought for what they thought was right at the time and for good or bad it's an important part of our history. I don't understand either how anyone could ever think that it was okay to own human beings and use them as slaves. But it happened and it's a part of history. For African Americans the Civil War is a very important thing. It was the victory over slavery forever in this country. So I hope that the activist groups in this country can wise up before it's too late.

Sandra123
August 21st, 2017, 08:53 PM
Hello everyone!

I've been meaning to ask, how do you feel regarding the whole PC culture and SJW?
Is it a good thing? Does it work or does it do more harm than good?

Both are enemies of humanity! Evils!:mad:

Matryoshkasystem
August 21st, 2017, 10:26 PM
SJW's are a menace and should be stopped. Thank goodness that they haven't invaded the South U.S. ... then again they'd have to be crazier than us though to get anywhere. Heck they attacked Lacie Green just for mentioning the possibility of interacting with non-SJW's in a constructive manner.
PC...potentially good for stopping slurs...but it has gone too far in some aspects.

Dalcourt
August 21st, 2017, 10:41 PM
Hello
PC culture ain't bad. In fact there is another word you likely know it by: politeness. Adhering to standard social values and expectations in order to minimize social chaos is a good thing in my opinion. Sure, there are times to ruffle feathers, but being vulgar or insensitive for no reason should be looked down upon.

And in the case of SJWs, they don't really exist in any concerted way off the Internet. They are insignificant and not that important in the greater political realm. That being said, these college students are pretty cringy. That is about it.

Yeah, I completely agree.


Sure PC can be overdone but at the core of it, it's just made up of politeness and common sense as it was stated above. You want to be treated right, so treat others right, too.

Those overzealous SJW are mainly an internet thing and if a handful of people protest some injustice at their college...well not harm done, right?

They are sometimes annoying and cringe worthy...like Babs said with the Flint example. I know a couple of people I talk to online...they often try to tell me how I have to feel about certain things due to my being black. It gets on my nerves ,right, since it's just white people who know nothing about black culture and all, but end of the day they sorta mean well and aren't out to hurt me.
So I ain't mad.

Some of them may act silly...some might overdo it but since they are not hurting anyone I roll my eyes and forget about them.

SJW are not an extremist group, they just talk and from their rows nobody acts really violent.

There are a lot of other groups in the world that are extremist and should worry us all a great deal more.

Stronk Serb
August 22nd, 2017, 06:48 AM
The term 'political correctness' was coined at the height of the maoist-stalinist brital dictatorship. Politically correct statements were statements which were 'correct', they did not stray from party doctrine and stances. It was more important to be politically correct than factually correct. The Party's narrative was more important than pure facts. It sort of reminds me of the modern SJWs.

PlasmaHam
August 22nd, 2017, 09:06 AM
If you think about it, the alt-right and SJWs are essentially two sides of the same coin. Both consist primarily of 20-something white people either in college or still living with their parents. Both do most of their work via trolling on the internet. Both are largely peaceful, but with violent, murderous extremists on both sides (Dallas, Charlottesville). Both groups absolutely hate opinions and people they disagree with. Both are anti-Semetic. Both are obsessed with race, both are fear-mongerers, both are authoritarian, both disagree with the major political parties, and so on. I think you are getting my point. The only real difference between the groups, is that one hates blacks, Muslims, and progressivism, and the other hates whites, Christians, and traditionalism.

mattsmith48
August 22nd, 2017, 10:20 AM
I think the PC culture is necessary in today's society, but sometimes it goes to far. As for SJW the ideas are fine, but like Mars said it's more the people who are the problem.
PlasmaHam I know you like to compare things to Nazis, but that is a little extreme when did a SJW ever killed someone or committed terrorism?

Babs
August 22nd, 2017, 03:00 PM
when did a SJW ever killed someone or committed terrorism?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2017/01/05/disabledteen-tortured-facebook-live

not that i'm trying to enter white people into the oppression olympics for reasons stated in my initial post but there you go

Dalcourt
August 22nd, 2017, 03:24 PM
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2017/01/05/disabledteen-tortured-facebook-live

not that i'm trying to enter white people into the oppression olympics for reasons stated in my initial post but there you go

And why exactly do you consider those people SJW?
They have nothing to do with what people would generally see as SJW...so I guess we need to clarify what we consider SJW in this discussion.

An even so your example is a horrible act of hate crime it's still no example for mattsmith48 question about murder and terrorism...

Babs
August 22nd, 2017, 03:41 PM
And why exactly do you consider those people SJW?
They have nothing to do with what people would generally see as SJW...so I guess we need to clarify what we consider SJW in this discussion.


The "if you voted for trump you're terrible and deserve to be hurt no trump whatsoever" sort of mentality is something I've seen exclusively with that sort of political alignment.

To me, an SJW is one who cultivates an adversarial relationship between who they perceive to be oppressed minorities and privileged majorities. Obviously there are many layers and tiers to the spectrum: there are the people that cry on the internet, and there are people who take to violence and extremism.

Murder and terrorism? Maybe not but I don't see any reason to be splitting hairs when somebody is scalped "because donald trump"

PlasmaHam
August 22nd, 2017, 03:48 PM
These guys repeatedly expressed the dogma of BLM and SJWs, I wouldn't be surprised if they were. There is definitely more evidence of them being SJWs than Trump being a Nazi. Even still, we could also count the numerous police deaths by BLM supporters and the attempted assassination of a GOP Congressman by a Bernie Supporter as SJW terrorism and murder.

To me, an SJW is one who cultivates an adversarial relationship between who they perceive to be oppressed minorities and privileged majorities. Obviously there are many layers and tiers to the spectrum: there are the people that cry on the internet, and there are people who take to violence and extremism.
I like that statement. It would sum up SJWs pretty nicely.

Dalcourt
August 22nd, 2017, 04:12 PM
PlasmaHam Babs so according to the definition of SJW in a broader sense all alt-right groups could be seen as SJWs, too, yet people coined this term for the liberal/leftist side...that always struck me as rather odd.

So they there would not be alt-right and SJW as two sides of a coin as PlasmaHam said but rather a SJW coin with a right and a left or a conservative and a liberal side?

Babs
August 22nd, 2017, 04:23 PM
PlasmaHam Babs so according to the definition of SJW in a broader sense all alt-right groups could be seen as SJWs, too, yet people coined this term for the liberal/leftist side...that always struck me as rather odd.

So they there would not be alt-right and SJW as two sides of a coin as PlasmaHam said but rather a SJW coin with a right and a left or a conservative and a liberal side?

One could say that the alt-right are the SJWs of the right in that they're the extremes of either side, but they're completely different politically. I think you're capable of sensing the nuances of my statement.

idk your wording in the second paragraph is confusing me.

Dalcourt
August 22nd, 2017, 04:44 PM
One could say that the alt-right are the SJWs of the right in that they're the extremes of either side, but they're completely different politically. I think you're capable of sensing the nuances of my statement.

idk your wording in the second paragraph is confusing me.

The term is about social justice and not politics. Also in your definition you never mentioned any political side.That is why I was asking.

I would paint you a picture for the second paragraph to explain but I'm lacking the museum.

So as I see it SJW use their right for free speech to say things not all of us like but since we are all in favour of free speech why should be bothered by them anyway?

Babs
August 22nd, 2017, 05:08 PM
The term is about social justice and not politics. Also in your definition you never mentioned any political side.That is why I was asking.

I would paint you a picture for the second paragraph to explain but I'm lacking the museum.

So as I see it SJW use their right for free speech to say things not all of us like but since we are all in favour of free speech why should be bothered by them anyway?

Social justice has everything to do with politics. I figured that it went without saying that social justice is a leftist thing because everyone knows that, and I think the article I linked was an obvious case of leftist extremism.

Because criticism is also covered by free speech. They're free to say what they want and I'm free to say I disagree.

I can sense us delving into shit that doesn't matter at all so let's not do that.

PlasmaHam
August 22nd, 2017, 08:37 PM
PlasmaHam Babs so according to the definition of SJW in a broader sense all alt-right groups could be seen as SJWs, too, yet people coined this term for the liberal/leftist side...that always struck me as rather odd.
You are exaggerating his definition of SJW. The alt-right does not "cultivates an adversarial relationship between who they perceive to be oppressed minorities and privileged majorities." I'm honestly lost at how you are concluding that this definition easily applies to the alt-right. Even still, you are proving my earlier statement right by stating that SJWs and the Alt-Right are essentially the exact same thing, minus their political beliefs.

So as I see it SJW use their right for free speech to say things not all of us like but since we are all in favour of free speech why should be bothered by them anyway?
Leftists keep using this argument, yet it never makes sense to me. So, according to your logic, I can't speak out against an opinion I don't like because I support free speech? What exactly are you trying to prove here?

I second Babs, this is leading towards an irrelevant flame war, let's avoid that.

Porpoise101
August 22nd, 2017, 08:47 PM
Look let me elaborate on what I perceive to be SJW types and what is considered to be alt-right. They are not really the same.

SJWs I perceive to be those obnoxious college leftists who promote privilege theory while using passive tactics in a rude way. They are whiny, sure. But they aren't violent or militant. This crowd is wholly separate from more violent leftist movements that include anarchists, communists, and black separatists. In fact, these groups tend to denounce SJWs all the same. Communists really hate them more than any right-wing person because they believe it is 1) giving a bad name (side note: laughing at 'giving a bad name' to communism) and 2) distracting from real leftist struggles. SJWs, pacifists as they are, do not really pose a physical threat besides having them talk at you.

Now the alt-right in my view is 'victimhood for white people'. This umbrella includes plenty of non-violent types; in fact many of them are old (pseudo)academic types that wouldn't last a few minutes in any violent situation. But within this group lie violent people, and the alt-right do not clearly repudiate or reject them. Sure, some leaders like Richard Spencer denounce violence, but it is more for PR reasons instead of doctrinal ones. The alt-right's philosophy and plan for the future is incomplete, which leaves violence, as a method to promote their ideology, on the table. As such, the alt-right movement is more violent because it does not clearly stand against violence in the way that the SJW types do.

Dalcourt
August 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM
Porpoise101 is completely right. Trying to make some whiny annoying college students into a militant hate group is completely over the top.

So PlasmaHam and Babs before you accuse people of wanting to fight with you try to understand that there are differences between groups like SJWs and Antifa or BLM and NOI. Then nobody is bullshitting you ;)

Babs
August 22nd, 2017, 09:22 PM
Porpoise101 is completely right. Trying to make some whiny annoying college students into a militant hate group is completely over the top.

So PlasmaHam and Babs before you accuse people of wanting to fight with you try to understand that there are differences between groups like SJWs and Antifa or BLM and NOI. Then nobody is bullshitting you ;)

nah, i don't think SJWs are a militant hate group. there are just some crazies out there. mattsmith asked for an example of violence, i gave it to him. my point is that being too militantly anything is a bad thing, and if that got lost somewhere in this thread then my bad.

never said you wanted to fight, i said we were debating about stupid irrelevant shit and for that reason this will be my final post in this thread.

mattsmith48
August 22nd, 2017, 11:57 PM
The "if you voted for trump you're terrible and deserve to be hurt no trump whatsoever" sort of mentality is something I've seen exclusively with that sort of political alignment.

To me, an SJW is one who cultivates an adversarial relationship between who they perceive to be oppressed minorities and privileged majorities. Obviously there are many layers and tiers to the spectrum: there are the people that cry on the internet, and there are people who take to violence and extremism.

Murder and terrorism? Maybe not but I don't see any reason to be splitting hairs when somebody is scalped "because donald trump"

I ask about murder and terrorism because PlasmaHam compared SJW to the alt-right.

ShineintheDark
August 23rd, 2017, 10:18 AM
SJWs are to the Left like the Neo-Nazis are to the Right: we have to ackowledge that they do exist and do our best to try and take them away from the platforms that are better used for more reasonable discussion. I don't like SJWs as I think they're a detriment to Leftist credibility but I prefer to see them as yet-to-be radicalised Leftists rather than completely useless people.