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NewLeafsFan
August 3rd, 2017, 10:32 PM
I'm going to word this as politely as possible. I would take Trump. And not because I like him. To put it in words that a Republican could better relate to I don't believe that he has a good understanding of American values. He has said that he wouldn't go out for dinner with a woman without his wife being present even if it was work related. I mean how would it look if the leader of the United States had to have his wife go with him to international meetings that female politicians are attending?

PlasmaHam
August 3rd, 2017, 11:12 PM
Pence.

Trump is a moderate in many ways. On the subjects of healthcare, LGBT+, trade, religion, consistional freedoms, and more, he has position's that are centered or even closer to the Left. The only real thing's where he is solidly conservative is when it comes to immigration and the economy. Pence on the other hand is solidly conservative through-and-through. And on a personal level, Pence seems like a better guy than Trump.

To the OP's post. It does seem odd that a social quirk is the reason why you would rather have one president over the other. Especially since you exaggerated it. Pence said that he won't dine alone with a woman other than his wife. Even in private meetings at international gatherings, there are always people around the president, be it translators and the Secret Service. I don't see how this will hamper his ability to govern in any real way.

Melodic
August 3rd, 2017, 11:45 PM
I'm an extreme liberal so this is the equivalent of asking me whether I would rather have markers or pens thrown at my face. Obviously the choice is neither. However, I'd prefer Pence just because he showcases more maturity & confidence with his political views where as Trump tends to say one thing & do another.

Flapjack
August 4th, 2017, 06:50 AM
This is a tough one, Trump to me is like an unstable child so he could potentially do something reckless and dangerous, especially with his approval ratings dropping lower and lower however he is so dumb he is struggling to get stuff done whereas Pence is a nasty man that believes in electric shock therapy to 'treat' homosexuality and is a competent leader so could get stuff done but at least he has some idea how the world works and could hopefully restore some credibility to America's reputation as they are currently a laughing stock with Trump.

Living For Love
August 4th, 2017, 08:28 AM
He has said that he wouldn't go out for dinner with a woman without his wife being present even if it was work related.
Lol, why is this a bad thing?

I'd prefer Pence because he has political experience as a Governor.

ShineintheDark
August 4th, 2017, 12:16 PM
It's actually pretty tough for me to decide. On one hand you have Trump, whose childish and unexplainable antics are glorious to watch as all it does is undermine the credibility of the GOP to govern the US effectively. At the same time, we also don't want the US to fail because that punishes everybody involved, GOP or not. On the other hand, we have the very capable and level-headed Pence who would certainly govern the US in a stable and sustainable fashion but he's also as Conservative as they come and so would actually be able to do lasting things (unlike Trump because, let's face it, even if you like the guy you gotta admit he's currently very ineffectual when it comes to passing policies).).

Porpoise101
August 4th, 2017, 01:15 PM
Pence. It would ruin the Republican party's support (drive away Trump's base) + have an experienced, semi-competent person in charge.

NewLeafsFan
August 10th, 2017, 10:38 PM
Maybe that was a bad example of Pence not having dinner with a woman without his wife. I still believe that Mike Pence's values are the center point for much of what he advocates for politically. To make this worse, his values are different than the vast majority of Americans.

PlasmaHam
August 11th, 2017, 10:05 AM
Maybe that was a bad example of Pence not having dinner with a woman without his wife. I still believe that Mike Pence's values are the center point for much of what he advocates for politically. To make this worse, his values are different than the vast majority of Americans.
How is that exactly a bad thing? Sure if you disagree with his values then you may personal think it is bad, but you seem to be indicating that because the guy doesn't hold a majority opinion, then his values are automatically inferior. Might does not make right. And a "vast majority" is a bit of an over-statement. There is still a substantial minority that agrees mainly with Pence's value, he isn't someone of fringe beliefs.

Babs
August 11th, 2017, 10:35 AM
I'd take Pence, partly out of spite, but mostly because he is more experienced and level-headed. I'd take someone less politically aligned with me over a maniac.

mattsmith48
August 11th, 2017, 11:56 AM
How is that exactly a bad thing? Sure if you disagree with his values then you may personal think it is bad, but you seem to be indicating that because the guy doesn't hold a majority opinion, then his values are automatically inferior. Might does not make right. And a "vast majority" is a bit of an over-statement. There is still a substantial minority that agrees mainly with Pence's value, he isn't someone of fringe beliefs.

That's not a bad thing it's just weird and makes it look like he might have had some infidelity problems in the past.

NewLeafsFan
August 11th, 2017, 08:22 PM
How is that exactly a bad thing? Sure if you disagree with his values then you may personal think it is bad, but you seem to be indicating that because the guy doesn't hold a majority opinion, then his values are automatically inferior. Might does not make right. And a "vast majority" is a bit of an over-statement. There is still a substantial minority that agrees mainly with Pence's value, he isn't someone of fringe beliefs.

Let me start out by saying that I believe that everyone has the right to their own personal values. No one should ever be made to feel that their values are inferior.

The problem with VP Mike Pence is that his values and his political history both involve restricting other peoples values. To me that is radical.

Angelus_Mortem
August 11th, 2017, 09:13 PM
I'd take Pence, partly out of spite, but mostly because he is more experienced and level-headed. I'd take someone less politically aligned with me over a maniac.
Pence believes you can eradicate homosexuality by using shock therapy... I'd take Trump over Pence any day.

Babs
August 11th, 2017, 10:07 PM
Pence believes you can eradicate homosexuality by using shock therapy... I'd take Trump over Pence any day.

that's a half-truth. http://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/

regardless, i doubt he'd get any traction if he tried to push for gay conversion. what i find more troubling is that our current president has a poor understanding of our system of checks and balances.

pence isn't trying to make waves, he just wants to preserve his career.

Dalcourt
August 12th, 2017, 01:58 AM
I'd take Pence over Trump. He is more conservative okay, but that's something I can live with. At least he does not act like a petulant child getting our nation into trouble due to his temper tantrums.

mattsmith48
August 12th, 2017, 10:21 AM
Just want to point out that if Mike Pence was president the US wouldn't be going to war with North Korea.

Pence believes you can eradicate homosexuality by using shock therapy... I'd take Trump over Pence any day.

And they say Muslims hate gays

Jinglebottom
August 12th, 2017, 10:34 AM
And they say Muslims hate gays
The majority of Muslims still harbor extremely negative feelings towards gay people (and homosexuality is criminalized in most Islamic countries) so I'm not sure why you're comparing the two.

mattsmith48
August 12th, 2017, 11:01 AM
The majority of Muslims still harbor extremely negative feelings towards gay people (and homosexuality is criminalized in most Islamic countries) so I'm not sure why you're comparing the two.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Homosexuality is punishable by death because they follow Islamic law. When he becomes president I'm pretty sure he would try to implement Christian law in the US, including criminalizing homosexuality or forcing gays into gay conversion therapy. If he does that I would advice Mike Pence to try the therapy on himself before passing it into law.

Dalcourt
August 12th, 2017, 11:55 AM
Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Homosexuality is punishable by death because they follow Islamic law. When he becomes president I'm pretty sure he would try to implement Christian law in the US, including criminalizing homosexuality or forcing gays into gay conversion therapy. If he does that I would advice Mike Pence to try the therapy on himself before passing it into law.

Well no president would ever succeed with imposing Christian law in the US...too many influential people in the US are Jewish and will know how to stop that.
And the homophobia thing is way too overplayed with Pence...he would sure focus on more important stuff than people's sexuality.

Trump is along the same line as Kim Jong-un two overgrown children playing the dangerous game of politics. I don't think Pence would handle such issues like the North Korea thing so badly.

mattsmith48
August 12th, 2017, 12:38 PM
Well no president would ever succeed with imposing Christian law in the US...too many influential people in the US are Jewish and will know how to stop that.

I think the constitution would be a bigger obstacle than influential Jewish people, since you it says ''Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof''.

And the homophobia thing is way too overplayed with Pence...he would sure focus on more important stuff than people's sexuality.

We are talking about a guy who passed a law in Indiana so bakeries could refuse to sell wedding cake to gay people and the party that spent the last two years fear mongering about transgenders using public bathrooms. It's pretty clear the don't understand what is important stuff.

PlasmaHam
August 12th, 2017, 01:29 PM
Well no president would ever succeed with imposing Christian law in the US...too many influential people in the US are Jewish and will know how to stop that.

Idk about that. Jews and Christians have rather similar "laws" when it comes to culture. The main difference is that Jews take it to the next level.
I think the constitution would be a bigger obstacle than influential Jewish people, since you it says ''Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof''.Aren't you the same person who advocated for banning public displays on religion. I'm not wanting to debate that, but it is funny that you bring up the First Amendment here.

Anyhow, I seriously doubt that there would be any effort by Pence to enact any criminalization of homosexuality or mandatory electro-shock treatment. That is just leftist fear mongering. He may personally believe it, but that doesn't mean he'll make it law. For instance, I don't like cats, that doesn't mean that I will enact a law mandating the slaughter of every cat in the USA. Even still, do you seriously expect such a bill to even pass a Congressional committee?



We are talking about a guy who passed a law in Indiana so bakeries could refuse to sell wedding cake to gay people
God forbid freedom to serve whom you may!
the party that spent the last two years fear mongering about transgenders using public bathrooms.
and the opposing party has been fear mongering that there would be trannycide unless people allow 'functional' males into a closed room with little girls.

Dalcourt
August 12th, 2017, 11:07 PM
We are lking about a guy who passed a law in Indiana so bakeries could refuse to sell wedding cake to gay people and the party that spent the last two years fear mongering about transgenders using public bathrooms. It's pretty clear the don't understand what is important stuff.

Well not seening the real important problems in our country and rather doing those petty stuff to appease a few radicals is a common illness among a lot of politicians...In the end it's just much ado about nothing and I don't see any of it being different with Trump or any other Republican.


Idk about that. Jews and Christians have rather similar "laws" when it comes to culture. The main difference is that Jews take it to the next level.


Well Muslim Sharia law also has the same content in many respects like fundamental Christian "laws" have still it's especially those group fear mongering against Islam.

So no need to give a law a certain religious connotation.

Trump is having a big mouth shouting around threats against North Korea and Venezuela. At the same time stuff like Charlottesville happens and he is too coward to say something except some empty phrases.

Strangely here it's both sides who are to blame where he doesn't see himself at fault while handling international politics in the same style as people do these sorts of protests.

Pence would handle those things with more quiet and reason.
Even though they are political oppositeside Pence has more of the quiet and dignity Obama had...
No matter what you might think of someone's political views....having a red face from shouting around nonsense in an Hitleresk style spraying spittle on the people next to you as Trump does will never give you aposition of respect nationally or internationally.
Telling someone the same nonsense in a quiet and reserved demeanour will make it sound far better in is not so embarrassing to look at.
That basically my main reason for choosing nearly anyone over Trump.

Agent X
August 13th, 2017, 11:01 PM
It's a tough one. I am fairly conservative, and I like bits and pieces of both of them. I like how Trump is more tolerant and a bit less extreme, but at the same time, Pence is more mature and "presidential" in his manner. I'd be okay with both, but I'm still sad that Ben Carson didn't win.

ShineintheDark
August 14th, 2017, 08:46 AM
It's a tough one. I am fairly conservative, and I like bits and pieces of both of them. I like how Trump is more tolerant and a bit less extreme, but at the same time, Pence is more mature and "presidential" in his manner. I'd be okay with both, but I'm still sad that Ben Carson didn't win.

A quick deviation but I doubt Carson could have won. Whether this reflects on all Republican voters or not, the KKK do overwhelmingly vote Republican, as do most neo-Nazi groups and just general traditional racists. This of course does notr eflect on all Republicans because people vote for parties for a variety of different reasons. However, if all thopse groups saw a black nominee (and one as hopeless as Carson actually was) they'd all flee the base.

PlasmaHam
August 14th, 2017, 09:22 AM
A quick deviation but I doubt Carson could have won. Whether this reflects on all Republican voters or not, the KKK do overwhelmingly vote Republican, as do most neo-Nazi groups and just general traditional racists. This of course does notr eflect on all Republicans because people vote for parties for a variety of different reasons. However, if all thopse groups saw a black nominee (and one as hopeless as Carson actually was) they'd all flee the base.

The KKK and neo-Nazis form an extremely small base within the Republican party. It is extremely doubtful that they will be able to influence the GOP primaries in the slightest. That is like saying that Communists (who overwhelmingly vote Democrat) would prevent any capitalist nominee from that party.

Anyhow, among white Christian evangelicals (aka the racists as the media liked to say), there was actually pretty wide support for Carson. He was very pro-religion, a soft-spoken man, and respectable. I liked Carson pretty well. I think his big problem, and the reason why he lost the nomination, is that he lacked any of the political know-how necessary for the office, which came out during the debates. A good man, but not fit for president.

mattsmith48
August 14th, 2017, 10:53 AM
It's a tough one. I am fairly conservative, and I like bits and pieces of both of them. I like how Trump is more tolerant and a bit less extreme, but at the same time, Pence is more mature and "presidential" in his manner. I'd be okay with both, but I'm still sad that Ben Carson didn't win.

Ben Carson really?!

The KKK and neo-Nazis form an extremely small base within the Republican party. It is extremely doubtful that they will be able to influence the GOP primaries in the slightest.

Anyhow, among white Christian evangelicals (aka the racists as the media liked to say), there was actually pretty wide support for Carson. He was very pro-religion, a soft-spoken man, and respectable. I liked Carson pretty well. I think his big problem, and the reason why he lost the nomination, is that he lacked any of the political know-how necessary for the office, which came out during the debates. A good man, but not fit for president.

Neither did Trump and look where he is now.

Porpoise101
August 14th, 2017, 12:55 PM
he lacked any of the political know-how necessary for the office, which came out during the debates.Are you referring to Carson or to Trump? Asking for a friend.

PlasmaHam
August 14th, 2017, 01:03 PM
Are you referring to Carson or to Trump? Asking for a friend.

Very funny.

I was talking about Carson. Trump, despite never holding political office aswell, at least showed a greater understanding of the issues and gave more coherent solutions to our problems. Let's not get this discussion off-topic though, we gone far enough down this rabbit hole.

Diana2002
August 18th, 2017, 02:13 PM
Trump? I guess....

Sword of the morning
August 19th, 2017, 12:27 PM
I would have to say Trump he seems to have more moderate then drasticly conservative. Pence is a good guy I just don't agree with some of his points.

mattsmith48
August 20th, 2017, 12:59 PM
Trump? I guess....

How?

I would have to say Trump he seems to have more moderate then drasticly conservative. Pence is a good guy I just don't agree with some of his points.

In what world ''I just don't agree with some of his points'' a reason to not pick that person over a mentally unstable pussy grabber?