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Porpoise101
July 29th, 2017, 01:45 PM
President Trump plans to sign legislation slapping new punitive sanctions on Russia over election meddling, the White House said Friday, effectively ending hopes for the fresh start with Moscow that he came into office promising to seek.

Trump opposed the legislation as an infringement on executive power but faced the certainty of an embarrassing congressional override if he vetoed it. The announcement came hours after the Russian government announced that it would seize U.S. diplomatic properties and kick out a large number of U.S. diplomats.

The Russian action was in response to the sanctions bill passed by Congress on Thursday. It signaled a loss of patience by Russian President Vladimir Putin with the Trump administration’s inability to change the troubled relationship between the two nuclear-armed powers, which stands at its lowest point since the end of the Cold War.

The legislation handcuffs Trump’s power to lift earlier punitive measures taken by the United States in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine — the top priority for Putin in any remake of the U.S.-Russia relationship.

“President Donald J. Trump read early drafts of the bill and negotiated regarding critical elements of it,” a White House statement said. “He has now reviewed the final version and, based on its responsiveness to his negotiations, approves the bill and intends to sign it.”From the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-demands-us-reduce-diplomatic-staff-in-new-round-of-conflict-over-election/2017/07/28/42a567fe-7378-11e7-803f-a6c989606ac7_story.html?utm_term=.213b3cef8694)

It is worth noting here that Congress is also working on sanctioning North Korea and Iran as well. The Iranian sanctions are going to be limited however.

PlasmaHam
July 29th, 2017, 02:36 PM
I approve of sanctions on all 3 countries, though I doubt they will do much to counter the North Korean threat. The only way to effectively sanction North Korea would be to get China to do the same. And despite all the rethoric from the Chinese leaders, there has been minimal change in NK-Chinese relations so far.

Russian sanctions by Congress would definitely over-ride executive veto. Except for a small minority of each party, there is near universal distrust of Russia of Capital Hill.

ShineintheDark
July 29th, 2017, 04:25 PM
I don't trust it. He wouldn't be all buddy-buddy and keep up a strongly positive public persona if he really indeed intend to publically slap them with more sanctions. I fully expect this to all be a PR stunt and be swept under the rug. Trump's not stupid: he knows that not even his own party would support any attempts to lift sanctions and so is probably just keeping up appearances to make it seem like he's really their guy.

PlasmaHam
July 29th, 2017, 05:48 PM
I don't trust it.
What don't you trust?

Porpoise101
July 29th, 2017, 06:23 PM
I don't trust it. He wouldn't be all buddy-buddy and keep up a strongly positive public persona if he really indeed intend to publically slap them with more sanctions. I fully expect this to all be a PR stunt and be swept under the rug. Trump's not stupid: he knows that not even his own party would support any attempts to lift sanctions and so is probably just keeping up appearances to make it seem like he's really their guy.If you read the article, then you would understand that Trump would have to pass the sanctions now or have Congress override his veto. There was overwhelming bipartisan support for this; in the Senate the bill passed 98-2 in favor of it. He likely chose to sign it because it would be less embarrassing and it isn't worth enough to him to quibble over.

Flapjack
July 29th, 2017, 07:57 PM
He did back himself into a corner by threatening to veto it... It is clear he doesn't want the sanctions to pass but will all the controversy surrounding his connections to Russia he has to pass it.

mattsmith48
July 29th, 2017, 08:01 PM
He didn't really had the choice, a veto of the Russian sanctions would basically be a confession that something is going on between Trump and Putin.

Can someone tell me what are the sanctions on Iran for?

PlasmaHam
July 29th, 2017, 08:18 PM
He didn't really had the choice, a veto of the Russian sanctions would basically be a confession that something is going on between Trump and Putin.
Not necessarily. There are some arguments as to why Russian sanctions aren't needed. I'm not quite sure of Trump's argument on the issue though.
Can someone tell me what are the sanctions on Iran for?
Mainly over their recent rocket launch. Apparently their rocket technology mirrors closely that of ICBMs, and Iran was prohibited in some prior treaty to not pursue ICBMs.

Their suspected dealing of technologies with North Korea could also be a factor.

mattsmith48
July 29th, 2017, 08:21 PM
Not necessarily. There are some arguments as to why Russian sanctions aren't needed. I'm not quite sure of Trump's argument on the issue though.

Mainly over their recent rocket launch. Apparently their rocket technology mirrors closely that of ICBMs, and Iran was prohibited in some prior treaty to not pursue ICBMs.

Their suspected dealing of technologies with North Korea could also be a factor.

Makes sense.

BTW sanctions on North Korea won't work. Kim Jong Un doesn't give a shit about sanctions

SethfromMI
July 29th, 2017, 08:24 PM
Makes sense.

BTW sanctions on North Korea won't work. Kim Jong Un doesn't give a shit about sanctions

one of the things I do agree with you about. as long as they have China's support and despite what China is doing they are supporting North Korea, North Korea will continue on its course. Heck, North Korea might regardless of China or not (though if there is a country they truly heed it has to be China)

mattsmith48
July 29th, 2017, 08:29 PM
one of the things I do agree with you about. as long as they have China's support and despite what China is doing they are supporting North Korea, North Korea will continue on its course. Heck, North Korea might regardless of China or not (though if there is a country they truly heed it has to be China)

They are two ways we could deal with the North Korea situation.

1. We talk and negotiate with them.

2. We get China to do something about this since like you said they are they only ones who might be able to do something.

SethfromMI
July 29th, 2017, 08:36 PM
They are two ways we could deal with the North Korea situation.

1. We talk and negotiate with them.

2. We get China to do something about this since like you said they are they only ones who might be able to do something.

1. North Korea doesn't want to negotiate. Kim Jong Un is a dictator. Oh they "vote" alright in North Korea. They vote between Kim Jong Un and Kim Jong Un. He is a man who wants to build nuclear weapons so he can try to be a world power. His father was a nutcase and he is a nutcase. it is an isolated nation which wants to do whatever it wants. as far as the US, or most countries for that matter, negotiations are not going to work. I am not trying to be disagreeable on purpose. we don't want a nuclear war. there are no winners in a nuclear war. I honestly and sadly don;t think there is anything we can do in terms of negotiating. I mean, the US is still technically at war (maybe not practically, but technically). but North Korea wouldn't listen to most countries (but here I am repeating myself).

2. I think we are in complete agreement about this. The question is what will it take, if anything, to get China to actually do something and take action against North Korea. that I have no real answer for, although I do agree in saying if there was a a political/diplomatic type way to go, it is going to need China's involvement.

mattsmith48
July 29th, 2017, 08:43 PM
2. I think we are in complete agreement about this. The question is what will it take, if anything, to get China to actually do something and take action against North Korea. that I have no real answer for, although I do agree in saying if there was a a political/diplomatic type way to go, it is going to need China's involvement.

Trade war?

SethfromMI
July 29th, 2017, 08:52 PM
Trade war?

that would indeed be one of the most practical things I suppose. I guess there is some danger of them calling up our debt, but our two economies are really linked well/so closely together. we do have to be careful how we tread with China. we certainly don't want a war with them (well, if possible, we want to avoid war with anyone, but you get what I am saying). but, that is certainly one good solution or at least a step to take. I am not sure how or if it would be effective, but it would certainly be a measure I would consider if we are trying to get China to do something.

Porpoise101
July 30th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Mainly over their recent rocket launch. Apparently their rocket technology mirrors closely that of ICBMs, and Iran was prohibited in some prior treaty to not pursue ICBMs. What you have to understand is that there are two groupings of sanctions against Iran. The earlier one is sanctions selectively targeting the organization known as the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. They are an influential paramilitary group fighting ISIS in Iraq and are connected to Hezbollah. It's good to sanction these guys because in many ways they pressure Iranian society to stay the same (when the people want reforms).

The second group of sanctions goes after a few industrial firms. Iran tested a space rocket and sent a satellite into space. I oppose these sanctions because the justification is weak. The US says that the technology to launch a satellite leads to nuclear ICBMs, which violates the spirit of the Iran deal. But because the nuclear material is being observed and monitored, any nuclear ICBM is impossible to construct anyways. All the second group of sanctions will do is needlessly antagonize Iran when we are trying to normalize our relationship.