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mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 09:51 AM
President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that he plans to reinstate a ban on transgender individuals from serving "in any capacity" in the US armed forces.
The decision reversed a policy initially approved by the Defense Department under President Barack Obama, which was still under final review, that would allow transgender individuals to openly serve in the military. Defense Secretary James Mattis announced last month that he was delaying enactment of the plan to begin allowing transgender individuals to join the US military.

"After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military," Trump said in a series of tweets Wednesday morning. "Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail."

"Thank you," he added.

Ash Carter, the Defense secretary under Obama, ended the ban on transgender people serving openly in the military in 2016, but allowed for a year-long review process to allow the Pentagon to determine how it would accept new transgender recruits into the military.
On the eve of that one-year deadline, Mattis announced that he was delaying the implementation of the new policy, saying he needed more time.
"Since becoming the Secretary of Defense, I have emphasized that the Department of Defense must measure each policy decision against one critical standard: will the decision affect the readiness and lethality of the force?" Mattis said in a memo late last month. "Put another way, how will the decision affect the ability of America's military to defend the nation? It is against this standard that I provide the following guidance on the way forward in accessing transgender individuals into the military Services."
A 2016 Rand Corp. study commissioned by the Defense Department concluded that letting transgender people serve openly would have a "minimal impact" on readiness and health care costs, largely because there are so few in the military's 1.3 million-member force.
The study put the number of transgender people in the military between 1,320 and 6,630. Gender-change surgery is rare in the general population, and the RAND study estimated the possibility of 30 to 140 new hormone treatments a year in the military, with 25 to 130 gender transition-related surgeries among active service members. The cost could range from $2.4 million and $8.4 million, an amount that would represent an "exceedingly small proportion" of total health care expenditures, the study found.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/trump-military-transgender/index.html

I have one question, why? They say its because of health care cost, but we know its bullshit. It's not just the military its everywhere, so the question why so much hate towards transgender people? I understand why they hate gay people, but I doubt they are all secretly transgenders too.

What do you guys think?

bougainvillea
July 26th, 2017, 10:13 AM
You beat me to writing this post :p

Honestly it feels like we've gone back a couple of decades or something man. What happened to equal rights?

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 10:20 AM
Why does the military hate flat-footed people? Why does the military hate the near-sighted? Why does the military hate the mentally disabled? Why does the military hate those with heart conditions? Why does the military hate those with hearing difficulties? Why does the military hate weak people? Why does the military hate those with sub-par vision? Why does the military hate tall people? Why does the military hate short people? Why does the military hate everyone except those with satisfactory physical and mental standards?

I have one question, why? They say its because of health care cost, but we know its bullshit. It's not just the military its everywhere, so the question why so much hate towards transgender people? I understand why they hate gay people, but I doubt they are all secretly transgenders too.
I am going to ignore the unsupported assertions that there is a massive and systemic hatred of trans/gay people, and try to stay on topic. If Trump hated trans people, why then has he repeatedly praised Caitylin Jenner as a "beautiful woman" and why has he stated that Trump Tower allows people to use the bathroom of their gender identity? If he hated gay people, why then has he repeatedly stated that he is fine with gay marriage? This "Trump hates LGBT+ people" has no basis in reality, and is just fear mongering by the radical Left.

Question for you, and I want an honest response. As likely the most hardcore social conservative on VT, and definitely a more hardcore social conservative than Trump, would you honestly say I hate gay/trans people?

Flapjack
July 26th, 2017, 10:23 AM
Why does the military hate flat-footed people? Why does the military hate the near-sighted? Why does the military hate the mentally disabled? Why does the military hate those with heart conditions? Why does the military hate those with hearing difficulties? Why does the military hate weak people?
Because them conditions limit the person's ability for do their job, being transgender does not.

This is a sad step backwards for America, in a time when everyone else is moving towards equality and acceptance, Trump is dragging America back.

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 10:30 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/politics/trump-military-transgender/index.html

I have one question, why? They say its because of health care cost, but we know its bullshit. It's not just the military its everywhere, so the question why so much hate towards transgender people? I understand why they hate gay people, but I doubt they are all secretly transgenders too.

What do you guys think?

Please define "everywhere". To me the term transgender is just stupid. People confuse it for transsexual a lot, and that one is even worse. If a person feels so insecure with their biological gender then why would they, after a full transition still label themselves trans, wouldn't it be a contradiction? Since they are so focussed on identifying as the opposite sex they shouldn't label themselves as something in between, but that's off topic here, still worth mentioning though.

You don't need to yell transphobic at everything Trump does, this actually makes a lot of sense. A transGENDER person is undetgoing their transition, this usually indicates the start of hormore treatment, surgery often follows. The military can not focus on these hormone treatments and surgeries while the individual is serving the army, since as it said in the article it would cost quite a bit of money to cover it all. If you would actually think before writing this post and freaking out it would be very much appreciated. There is a distinct difference between transgender and transsexual that you, Flapjack and devotionnel don't seem to understand here. This is not about equal rights. Once the person is a transsexual, which makes them either male or female they are most likely allowed to join just like that. This really isn't about hate against the transgender community, it's about common sense. It's similar to enlisting someone in the military who has cancer and needs to undergo treatment, the military can't pay off everyone's healthcare, in this case it has nothing to do with wether or not Trump hates them, it's about money and time, time that they won't be able to serve.

mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Why does the military hate flat-footed people? Why does the military hate the near-sighted? Why does the military hate the mentally disabled? Why does the military hate those with heart conditions? Why does the military hate those with hearing difficulties? Why does the military hate weak people? Why does the military hate those with sub-par vision? Why does the military hate tall people? Why does the military hate short people? Why does the military hate everyone except those with satisfactory physical and mental standards?


Flapjack explained it well, the military does not hate those people, they just couldn't do the job and put them self and others at risk during battles. Being Transgender does nothing of that.

I am going to ignore the unsupported assertions that there is a massive and systemic hatred of trans/gay people, and try to stay on topic. If Trump hated trans people, why then has he repeatedly praised Caitylin Jenner as a "beautiful woman" and why has he stated that Trump Tower allows people to use the bathroom of their gender identity? If he hated gay people, why then has he repeatedly stated that he is fine with gay marriage? This "Trump hates LGBT+ people" has no basis in reality, and is just fear mongering by the radical Left.


What I said was more about the party and not Trump himself.

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 10:48 AM
Because them conditions limit the person's ability for do their job, being transgender does not.
So, being injected with hormones that require months of treatment and will likely cause adverse reactionary affects by your body isn't a limitor to the effectiveness of the armed forces? Nevermind the various mental conditions and much higher rate of suicide common among transgender individuals.

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 10:48 AM
Flapjack explained it well, the military does not hate those people, they just couldn't do the job and put them self and others at risk during battles. Being Transgender does nothing of that.


I highly doubt you read what I just said on the medical treatment and surgery, but I suggest you do. When someone has to undergo intensive training in the military they can't just leave for surgery so change their appearance, that's not how the military works.

mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 10:57 AM
The Special One You talk about cost, they say in the article the cost would be $2.4 to $8.4 million, that is 0.004 to 0.017% of the Us military use on health care.

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 11:00 AM
The Special One You talk about cost, they say in the article the cost would be $2.4 to $8.4 million, that is 0.004 to 0.017% of the Us military use on health care.

I also talk about the fact they can't just leave for surgery and hormone treatment, I just quoted you explaining that to you. The problem is not the money, it's the idea, the principle. If you are training at a military facility you can't just leave for your hormone treatment /surgery. The military isn't a social security organisation, and it shouldn't be paying for those surgeries and treatments.

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 11:06 AM
What I said was more about the party and not Trump himself.
Fine.

Then tell me, someone who is more socially conservative than most of the modern Republican party, whether or not I hate trans/gay people. If I don't, then how can you claim that the Republican Party hates trans?

mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 11:19 AM
I also talk about the fact they can't just leave for surgery and hormone treatment, I just quoted you explaining that to you. The problem is not the money, it's the idea, the principle. If you are training at a military facility you can't just leave for your hormone treatment /surgery. The military isn't a social security organisation, and it shouldn't be paying for those surgeries and treatments.

Why not? If it was any other treatment they would either do it there or let you leave to do it.

Fine.

Then tell me, someone who is more socially conservative than most of the modern Republican party, whether or not I hate trans/gay people. If I don't, then how can you claim that the Republican Party hates trans?

Well they are the ones doing shit like this or the fear mongering they use as an excuse to pass their bathroom laws.

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 11:24 AM
Well they are the ones doing shit like this or the fear mongering they use as an excuse to pass their bathroom laws.
Ignoring the question. You claimed that there is a large and systemic hate conspiracy against gays and trans. Given you perimeters, I fit right in that. So answer my question.

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 11:29 AM
Why not? If it was any other treatment they would either do it there or let you leave to do it.




Other treatment such as pressing unforseen medical cases yes, but not transgender to transsexual surgery. First of all, I'm not sure if you know but I highly doubt they have surgeons who actually do gender reassignments at military facilities. There is a difference between urgent and not so urgent treatments.

Sailor Mars
July 26th, 2017, 12:01 PM
This whole thread and situation is a shit fest.

The only good thing about transgenders being banned from the military is that theyre protected from their peers "accidentally" shooting them. Oh wait, theyre bashed and discriminated against in public anyway. Wonder who's fault that is...

Same exact thing happens with homosexuals and other LGBTQ+ persons.

But I guess people get discriminated against for being near sighted and flat footed too, right?

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 12:11 PM
This whole thread and situation is a shit fest.

The only good thing about transgenders being banned from the military is that theyre protected from their peers "accidentally" shooting them. Oh wait, theyre bashed and discriminated against in public anyway. Wonder who's fault that is...

Same exact thing happens with homosexuals and other LGBTQ+ persons.

But I guess people get discriminated against for being near sighted and flat footed too, right?

It's funny because Trump isn't actually against gay marriage but I guess that's something you refuse to accept. Their peers aren't all transphobic, and neither am I. The ones near sighted here are the ones who don't even know the difference between transgender and transsexual, and the ones who instantly go to the "Trump hates trans people" answer instead of actually looking into it a bit more. I said it myself, this has more to do with the medical reasons than anything else. I for one respect all trans people and think they should be treated like others, since once theyare transsexual by definition the word trans loses all meaning and they are either male or female. Who says their peers are all like that? Are we now assuming most militaries are transphobic? Nobody in this thread is attacking trans people and nobody is making transphobic remarks, there is no need to act like me and PlasmaHam are.

Dalcourt
July 26th, 2017, 12:39 PM
You beat me to writing this post :p

Honestly it feels like we've gone back a couple of decades or something man. What happened to equal rights?

I really kinda feel the same eay when I read what our glorious government decides and how people praise it. Just waiting for new Jim Crow law now.

Sailor Mars
July 26th, 2017, 12:48 PM
It's funny because Trump isn't actually against gay marriage but I guess that's something you refuse to accept. Their peers aren't all transphobic, and neither am I. The ones near sighted here are the ones who don't even know the difference between transgender and transsexual, and the ones who instantly go to the "Trump hates trans people" answer instead of actually looking into it a bit more. I said it myself, this has more to do with the medical reasons than anything else. I for one respect all trans people and think they should be treated like others, since once theyare transsexual by definition the word trans loses all meaning and they are either male or female. Who says their peers are all like that? Are we now assuming most militaries are transphobic? Nobody in this thread is attacking trans people and nobody is making transphobic remarks, there is no need to act like me and PlasmaHam are.
I never said you were. I was implying those with similar political ideologies and opinions are usually the ones causing problems. I also never said Trump hates trans people or gays, but with all the people he's putting in office, and people he's defending, it's hard to think otherwise. Also, before you try to pull the "oh but he called Caitlyn Jenner beautiful" or whatever card PlasmaHam is trying to use, that's basically saying that "oh my friend is gay, I can't be homophobic" "oh I have a black friend, I can say the n word" like.... no.

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 12:52 PM
I never said you were. I was implying those with similar political ideologies and opinions are usually the ones causing problems. I also never said Trump hates trans people or gays, but with all the people he's putting in office, and people he's defending, it's hard to think otherwise. Also, before you try to pull the "oh but he called Caitlyn Jenner beautiful" or whatever card PlasmaHam is trying to use, that's basically saying that "oh my friend is gay, I can't be homophobic" "oh I have a black friend, I can say the n word" like.... no.

If I were president and I put a homophobe in office, does that make me a homophobe? By your logic the answer would be yes. I have similar political views, so I guess that makes me a homophobe now? I also don't see why you called this thread a shitstorm since there was no bashing going on and we just stated our opinion (and some facts too), so I have no clue why you said that but okay.

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 12:56 PM
. Also, before you try to pull the "oh but he called Caitlyn Jenner beautiful" or whatever card PlasmaHam is trying to use, that's basically saying that "oh my friend is gay, I can't be homophobic" "oh I have a black friend, I can say the n word" like.... no.
Ah, so you are basically pulling the "no true Scotsman" here. Mind backing up your argument more than a single "no"?

Arguments like yours are what made the words "racist" and "homophobe" lose all meaning.

Sailor Mars
July 26th, 2017, 12:56 PM
If I were president and I put a homophobe in office, does that make me a homophobe? By your logic the answer would be yes. I have similar political views, so I guess that makes me a homophobe now? I also don't see why you called this thread a shitstorm since there was no bashing going on and we just stated our opinion (and some facts too), so I have no clue why you said that but okay.

Because it seems every VT Daily thread turns into a repetitive debate that never ends and becomes a thread full of bashing. That's why.

Also, why would you put a homophobe in office if you didn't support that behavior?...

remind me why i reply to these threads again

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 01:03 PM
Because it seems every VT Daily thread turns into a repetitive debate that never ends and becomes a thread full of bashing. That's why.

Also, why would you put a homophobe in office if you didn't support that behavior?...

That hasn't happened here though, so don't say it has.

Well if your best friend made a racist comment that doesn't make you a racist too, even though you remain friends, it's the same in essence isn't it? Not everyone in office has the same ideas as Trump, that's called diversity, it is very important in politics. They are homophobic, yes but does that mean that is the reason they are in office? No. If he was a homophobe why didn't he attack gay marriage yet?

Also you don't have to reply, you as a staff member of this very subforum should be aware that things can get heated here so that's really not our fault. Also who is to blame for that? The ones who keep making threads of similar nature or the ones defending their opinions? If people state their opinions and others state theirs how is someone to blame if it is similar to another thread already made? This happens a lot on VT, it's nobody's and everybody's fault, and you can't exactly change thatn

Dalcourt
July 26th, 2017, 01:03 PM
Because it seems every VT Daily thread turns into a repetitive debate that never ends and becomes a thread full of bashing. That's why.
..

Yeah it's really gettin, old so honestly I don't even bother anymore...
All discussion on VT has just turned into beating a dead horse.

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 01:08 PM
Also, why would you put a homophobe in office if you didn't support that behavior?...
Maybe because I really don't care whether or not someone thinks man-on-man action is morally right if they are the best person for the job? Unlike the radical Left, I don't care about whether the person is gay, black, Jewish, or a cross-dresser. If they can do the job better than everyone else, then they got the job. Whether or not the Defense Secretary believes in climate change or the Agricultural Secretary believes in trans bathrooms is irrelevant.

Here is an example: If you had to choose between the most brilliant 4-star in the country to lead your army who just happened to not agree with gay marriage, and an inferior 2-star general who just happens to agree with gay marriage, which would you choose? The obvious choice is the 4-star general, because their opinions on gay marriage are minor or irrelevant in their duties, in which case is commanding the military forces of your country in the best manner possible. Only a fool would choose a military leader on the sole basis of agreeing morally with you.

remind me why i reply to these threads again

Perhaps instead of blaming people for defending themselves after accusations and false claims are made, maybe you should focus on the person who actually started the thread, knowing full-well that he was just going to start a flame-war. Go whine about him before whining about us.

mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 01:18 PM
Ignoring the question. You claimed that there is a large and systemic hate conspiracy against gays and trans. Given you perimeters, I fit right in that. So answer my question.

I did answer your question, you ask how can I claim that the Republican Party hates trans? and I answered they are the ones doing shit like this or the fear mongering they use as an excuse to pass their bathroom laws. What do you want more?

Other treatment such as pressing unforseen medical cases yes, but not transgender to transsexual surgery. First of all, I'm not sure if you know but I highly doubt they have surgeons who actually do gender reassignments at military facilities. There is a difference between urgent and not so urgent treatments.

Surgeries can be perform before or after their military service.

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 26th, 2017, 01:23 PM
I did answer your question, you ask how can I claim that the Republican Party hates trans?
So you admit that you think the Republican Party hates trans. Alright, as a very socially conservative Republican, do you think I also hate trans? Since I agree the trans-bathroom issue as those "hateful" Republicans, am I not also a trans-hater? If you say I am, then atleast you are being honest with yourself, if not, then how can you claim that less socially-conservative Republicans are trans-haters?

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 01:23 PM
Surgeries can be perform before or after their military service.

.....

That's the whole point. A transsexual has had their surgeries done so if they are done before their service there is no problem here whatsoever. If done after they will still have their hormone treatment going on before it which as PlasmaHam stated may have a negative impact on their performances.

mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 02:28 PM
So you admit that you think the Republican Party hates trans. Alright, as a very socially conservative Republican, do you think I also hate trans? Since I agree the trans-bathroom issue as those "hateful" Republicans, am I not also a trans-hater? If you say I am, then atleast you are being honest with yourself, if not, then how can you claim that less socially-conservative Republicans are trans-haters?

For you personally I don't want to into that. The Republican party definitely hates transgenders, it's now part of the party's philosophy like tax cuts, religion and segregation.

.....

That's the whole point. A transsexual has had their surgeries done so if they are done before their service there is no problem here whatsoever. If done after they will still have their hormone treatment going on before it which as PlasmaHam stated may have a negative impact on their performances.

But if they openly say they were born with the other sex or they haven't had the surgery, they still can't join because they are transgender.

How exactly hormone treatment can have a negative impact on their performance in such way they would be unable to do their job or it would put in danger them self and the live of others during combat?

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 02:37 PM
For you personally I don't want to into that. The Republican party definitely hates transgenders, it's now part of the party's philosophy like tax cuts, religion and segregation.



But if they openly say they were born with the other sex or they haven't had the surgery, they still can't join because they are transgender.

How exactly hormone treatment can have a negative impact on their performance in such way they would be unable to do their job or it would put in danger them self and the live of others during combat?

I highly doubt you have read my post on transgender vs transsexuals, I recommend you do so.

Again, read Plasma's post, a lot of these questions you have have already been answered, just so you know.

mattsmith48
July 26th, 2017, 02:55 PM
I highly doubt you have read my post on transgender vs transsexuals, I recommend you do so.

Again, read Plasma's post, a lot of these questions you have have already been answered, just so you know.

Ive read it and you're wrong. A transgender is a person who has a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex they we're assigned at birth.

Transsexual is a transgender who has the desire to permanently transition to the gender they identify with by medical procedures.

Leprous
July 26th, 2017, 03:04 PM
Ive read it and you're wrong. A transgender is a person who has a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex they we're assigned at birth.

Transsexual is a transgender who has the desire to permanently transition to the gender they identify with by medical procedures.

That's funny because even VT itself agrees with my definition. It is very up to interpretation, but if I were you I'd actually not trust online dictionaries since medical and even trans support websites say it's either what I just said, or up for interpretation, so I am not wrong here.

Phosphene
July 26th, 2017, 09:55 PM
Please keep replies relevant to the topic of the OP. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted. ~Amethyst Rose

Dalcourt
July 26th, 2017, 11:38 PM
"Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail."
D.Trump

Which victory? Where? In what war?
Can anyone tell me?

Also what will become of the tremendous amount of money saved? Will it be used for spending on weapons...better equipment?
Will it be used to improve health care and life situations of veterans and their families?
So can someone please enlighten me here?

And some other interesting stuff I found:"Should the US dare to show even the slightest sign of attempt to remove our supreme leadership, we will strike a merciless blow at the heart of the US with our powerful nuclear hammer, honed and hardened over time,"
Spokesman of the North Korean Foreign ministry.

Rhetoric sounds rather similar. Coincidence?

So this constant strife with North Korea where Trump just gets laughed in the face by them.
The endless discussion about abolishing Obamacare that still have lead nowhere.
The Russia affair...need I go on?
So we just needed a new great decision that keeps media busy.

Foreign language removed. ~Amethyst Rose

So the English translation of a well known saying then:
"Shame on him who suspects illicit motivation" (King Edward III of England)

AussieNicholas
July 27th, 2017, 07:56 AM
I think there are cases where this is justified. For example, if a transgender person is currently transitioning and requires regular hormone therapy, then I can understand not allowing them in a combat situation or any other environment when they can't receive the attention they need, or if for any other reason their judgement or abilities are impaired. I'm not clear on the details regarding how long transitioning takes or how expensive the procedures are, so if I'm missing something important then let me know.

Overall, people should be judged individually. When it comes to something like the military I think anyone who can show they're capable of meeting the requirements should be able to serve, whether it be in a combat role or another position. Refusing people who are physically and mentally able to carry out their duties just makes no sense to me.

DriveAlive
July 27th, 2017, 08:01 AM
Just a thought I had. If the enemy, be that ISIS or Al Qaeda or whoever, takes a soldier captive, then that soldier will likely be imprisoned. If they discover that the soldier is transgender, there is a very good chance that they will be brutally killed. This is similar to the fears of female soldiers being raped if they are captured.

Flapjack
July 27th, 2017, 08:09 AM
Just a thought I had. If the enemy, be that ISIS or Al Qaeda or whoever, takes a soldier captive, then that soldier will likely be imprisoned. If they discover that the soldier is transgender, there is a very good chance that they will be brutally killed. This is similar to the fears of female soldiers being raped if they are captured.
Because otherwise they would have welcomed the US soilder with open arms and given him a nice lil buffet because they wasn't transgender? Being captured is always very dangerous and I know what you mean about how these groups hate trans people but they also hate gays and Americans in general and they can all serve.

If you don't let trans people serve out of the fear of our enemies then they win. They want us to fear them. If the trans person chooses to take the risk then who are we to tell them they can't?

Dalcourt
July 27th, 2017, 08:10 AM
Just a thought I had. If the enemy, be that ISIS or Al Qaeda or whoever, takes a soldier captive, then that soldier will likely be imprisoned. If they discover that the soldier is transgender, there is a very good chance that they will be brutally killed. This is similar to the fears of female soldiers being raped if they are captured.

So you think Trump wants the ban to protect those people?

I guess everyone who joins the army has to accept that things like being killed by the enemy do happen.

As far as ISIS is concerned they beheaded civilians and what not in the past so I'm sure you would run as much risk to be killed by them as an ordinary male soldier.

mattsmith48
July 27th, 2017, 10:05 AM
"Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail."
D.Trump

Which victory? Where? In what war?
Can anyone tell me?

Well the US is currently bombing seven Muslim countries, I guess you could count that as wars. Plus since getting into office 6 months ago, President Dementia as threaten to invade Australia, Iran, Mexico, North Korea, Chicago and La La Land. So it was either focusing on winning wars by banning transgenders or penis enlargement surgery for the president.

Also what will become of the tremendous amount of money saved? Will it be used for spending on weapons...better equipment?
Will it be used to improve health care and life situations of veterans and their families?
So can someone please enlighten me here?


0.004% to 0.017% of the what the military use on health care. Just a reminder were talking about the biggest military in the history of the world and a country that spends more on it than the next 8 countries combine and with the exception of Russia none of those countries are enemies. So he really wanted to save money, there was a lot to choose from beside transgenders.

Just a thought I had. If the enemy, be that ISIS or Al Qaeda or whoever, takes a soldier captive, then that soldier will likely be imprisoned. If they discover that the soldier is transgender, there is a very good chance that they will be brutally killed. This is similar to the fears of female soldiers being raped if they are captured.

Unless they can get something out of the soldier they will likely kill them anyway. Death is death, no matter if its a straight soldier killed by being shot in the head or a transgender soldier being thrown of a roof.

Leprous
July 27th, 2017, 11:38 AM
This (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/transgender-military-trump-ban.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=http://m.facebook.com/) also shows why we shouldn't all freak the fuck out when Trump uses twitter as he can't actually change laws using twitter, just something I thought might be worth mentioning for those of you about to start riots.

Flapjack
July 27th, 2017, 12:47 PM
fqYRBAPCKY0

Babs
July 27th, 2017, 04:39 PM
i mean... i'm not about discrimination, but i don't think this is a point-blank act of hatred. the us military bars people with many types of medical problems. you can't join the military if you have an intense schedule of medication/other medical needs, which a transsexual would have. i take 1 medication which does indeed have me barred from the military. you can't join if you have a history of mental illness, which arguably correlates strongly with the transgender phenomenon. and then there is the aforementioned health cost, which i am not quick to dismiss as bullshit simply because it negatively effects transgender people; the cost of healthcare is very real.

i don't know if it was the right thing to do but i can't say that there are zero reasons to do it.

NewLeafsFan
August 2nd, 2017, 10:33 PM
I feel really sorry for those that found a place where they felt they belonged in the military, put there lives on the line only to be shit on by their commander in chief.

I feel for all Americans that actually see Donald Trump's true colours. The blind, uneducated voters that voted for him truly deserve all that they get.

ShineintheDark
August 3rd, 2017, 07:05 AM
Remember this is a blanket ban on trans people in the military, he is yet to clarify if this is active service or all parts of it. This ban could also apply to medics, caterers, cleaners, engineers, drivers: the military is made uyp of more than people who shoot bad guys. If Trump wants to prevent trans people from fighting because of medical costs and issues with accomodation, that's one issue that can be argued either way. But, until he clarifies just what he's banning people from doing in the US military, there's no way he can ban trans people from ALL of these roles because there is no concrete justification for preventing any other role other than active service members.

Dmaxd123
August 5th, 2017, 06:46 AM
here is my thoughts: read Babs' reply

if you're trans and want to serve, go for it but don't run around telling the world "i'm trans" run around telling the world "i'm a service member" and worry about your hormones AFTER you fulfill your chosen duties to your country


the military is absolutely a fighting force we may not be in any official wars right now but they are to be ready at a moments notice. trans people are absolutely NOT the only ones discriminated against so i'm not sure why it's such a huge deal