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nebula
July 18th, 2017, 04:23 PM
In the LGBT+ community and even across allies in general, everyone seems to have a different opinion on how the term "queer" is used to describe people. To some people it's seen as really derogatory and offensive, yet some people find it empowering to take back the 'once' derogatory meaning and flip it so it spreads positivity.

Personally I find it as a very helpful term to include everyone who isn't straight cis, so we're not leaving anybody out. It's good to have an umbrella term such as queer. However I used to be almost allergic to the term because I always saw it as an offensive word but maybe as I've learned more about the LGBT+ community I've definitely become more accepting of it.

What's your opinion on the topic, and do you like or dislike the use of "queer" to encompass the forever growing gay community?

Flapjack
July 18th, 2017, 04:54 PM
Yeah I think it is great actually as it can describe a large range of non binary people that don't identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transsexual. As long as the person saying it means well I don't see the harm but I do see why people would be offended by it, people are still discriminated against and being called queer in a discriminatory way and if you have experienced that you may associate the word queer with the oppressive bullying and not the empowerment as the gay community intends. If that makes any sense?? XD

Babs
July 18th, 2017, 07:37 PM
It's a word I regularly use as both an insult and a harmless umbrella term. Whether it's oppressive or empowering is irrelevant imo. I think certain words are only that offensive because they are held in such high esteem.
For example, when I first heard the word "fuck" aloud I was thunderstruck because cursing was a big deal when I was a kid. But when I got older, no one held the word in high esteem anymore. Everything was fuck this, fuck that. I say "fuck you" to my friends and they say it to me. The word has lost all meaning, all its oomph.

I've been called a dyke with the intention of hurting my feelings, but it doesn't hurt me because I won't let it. Obviously you can critique someone's use of a word, you're allowed to be offended by it, but words only have as much power as you give them.

Just JT
July 18th, 2017, 08:54 PM
I don't associate the word "queer" with anything bad myself. But I do perceive the use if the word as like....idk, someone I'm not I guess? If that makes any sense?

I'm very into same gender, but don't see myself as "queer". I perceive the use of that word as meaning more a male being more feminine. Which I'm not. And neither is a bad thing either

It's a good topic tbh. Something to give thought to. It's a word that can have very different meaning not only negative and positive but also neutral meanings to people to

Leprous
July 18th, 2017, 11:15 PM
What confuses me is how calling them "weird" is often seen as offensive but calling them queer isn't. What makes me confused here is how those 2 words have the same exact meaning. If someone gets offended by the word weird, they need to grow up.

Jinglebottom
July 18th, 2017, 11:25 PM
I'm not offended by the word queer but I just don't like the way it sounds (the word bugs me). I would never seriously use it on myself or anyone else, I'd rather if people called me gay instead tbh.

Dalcourt
July 18th, 2017, 11:35 PM
As Jinglebottom said.I don't like the word per se. It's not offensive or anything but it don't like the sound of it. So guess it's a word I never used or will use.

I don't really take wording here to serious anyway. I am not really bothered by someone not calling me the "politically correct" term.

nebula
July 19th, 2017, 02:15 AM
What confuses me is how calling them "weird" is often seen as offensive but calling them queer isn't. What makes me confused here is how those 2 words have the same exact meaning. If someone gets offended by the word weird, they need to grow up.

It can really all depend on the context of which it is used. Queer obviously has the primary definition of "strange" yet over time more definitions have been added so the world can be used in multiple contexts. For instance, in the UK if you feel ill you can say "I'm feeling a little queer". I wouldn't use that context to refer to the gay community, right?

azurzg
July 19th, 2017, 04:32 AM
I think the word queer simply means different, therefore it means weird as well as extraordinary and remarkable.

For the record, I don't believe any words are offensive nor empowering. It's how you use them.

Bull
July 19th, 2017, 05:48 AM
I do not like the application of queer as a label of sexuality. In that usage I put it in the same category as the N word.

azurzg
July 19th, 2017, 06:12 AM
In that usage I put it in the same category as the N word.

Yet, some people use that world to mean "buddy" or "bro".

Leprous
July 19th, 2017, 08:33 AM
It can really all depend on the context of which it is used. Queer obviously has the primary definition of "strange" yet over time more definitions have been added so the world can be used in multiple contexts. For instance, in the UK if you feel ill you can say "I'm feeling a little queer". I wouldn't use that context to refer to the gay community, right?

In the context of sick it still keeps some of its original meaning though, quite a lot of it if you think about it. I don't think the LGBT community needs to twist the meaning of words to identify themselves. As a community that is pro individual expression, they also seem to love labels that add them to groups. Lots of them. That's what my problem is with the word, it's not needed. It's simply not something required as I'm sure you can be gay without calling yourself queer.

nebula
July 19th, 2017, 08:55 AM
In the context of sick it still keeps some of its original meaning though, quite a lot of it if you think about it.

How does LGBT+ = ill? I'm not sure what you meant so if you could clarify that, please.

I don't think the LGBT community needs to twist the meaning of words to identify themselves.

Gay originally meant 'happy', so obviously it was okay that we felt the need to "twist" the meaning of that word but not queer?

As a community that is pro individual expression, they also seem to love labels that add them to groups. Lots of them. That's what my problem is with the word, it's not needed. It's simply not something required as I'm sure you can be gay without calling yourself queer.

Some people may not like labels such as gay or agender, so they would prefer to use the umbrella term queer as to avoid the stigma attached to their gender identity or sexuality.

Also, the community can be about expression and 'free love' but loads of people can be subject to a lot of heavy racism/sexism even more prominently than hetero couples, and surprisingly enough it's from other LGBT+ people. It's not uncommon that gay people will instantly reject and prejudge other gay people who aren't of their race or what they may call "preference". it's become even more prominent with dating websites and apps because they have the security of the screen in front of them.

Leprous
July 19th, 2017, 09:12 AM
How does LGBT+ = ill? I'm not sure what you meant so if you could clarify that, please.



Gay originally meant 'happy', so obviously it was okay that we felt the need to "twist" the meaning of that word but not queer?



Some people may not like labels such as gay or agender, so they would prefer to use the umbrella term queer as to avoid the stigma attached to their gender identity or sexuality.

Also, the community can be about expression and 'free love' but loads of people can be subject to a lot of heavy racism/sexism even more prominently than hetero couples, and surprisingly enough it's from other LGBT+ people. It's not uncommon that gay people will instantly reject and prejudge other gay people who aren't of their race or what they may call "preference". it's become even more prominent with dating websites and apps because they have the security of the screen in front of them.

Queer, weird, funny, odd, strange, that can be used to describe sick. Queer in its original meaning.

However with the word gay what would be used instead of that word would be insults, because I mean back when that word wasn't a thing it was criminal to be gay. The word gay has taken on a new meaning and is barely used in its original way. The word queer wasn't needed as it already had words to describe the LGBT people, there wasn't need for a new word.

There is nothing wrong in rejecting someone based on their race, as it is not racist to do so. Would I date a black person? No, does that make me a racist? Same answer. Racism happens among all groups of people, not just the LGBT community. Everyone has the right to have a sexual preference, which you should know especially. Race is also involved in this sexual preference, so there is nothing wrong with not being attracted to another race. It's natural, it's why most couples aren't interracial. It's not just something that happens in the LGBT community. Instantly rejecting them may be seen as racist, but the line should not be drawn there. That way you can call out a lot of people for racism.

nebula
July 19th, 2017, 11:09 AM
The word queer wasn't needed as it already had words to describe the LGBT people, there wasn't need for a new word.

Such as? Instead of typing out the whole acronym of LGBTQQIP2SAA? (That's not even all of them tbh, it's just the longest one I've ever seen so far).

There is nothing wrong in rejecting someone based on their race, as it is not racist to do so. [...] Instantly rejecting them may be seen as racist, but the line should not be drawn there. That way you can call out a lot of people for racism.

https://static-eu-central-1.thegailygrind.com/uploads/2015/11/grindr-1024x586.jpg

So this clearly isn't racism then, no? If someone you had an interest in (of any race tbh) said to you "sorry, I don't date white people they're not great" would you be offended/upset?

Leprous
July 19th, 2017, 02:37 PM
Such as? Instead of typing out the whole acronym of LGBTQQIP2SAA? (That's not even all of them tbh, it's just the longest one I've ever seen so far).



image (https://static-eu-central-1.thegailygrind.com/uploads/2015/11/grindr-1024x586.jpg)

So this clearly isn't racism then, no? If someone you had an interest in (of any race tbh) said to you "sorry, I don't date white people they're not great" would you be offended/upset?

It is a sexual preference, not racism. Anyone is allowed to have a sexual preference. If someone doesn't want to date a certain person because if their race it is their date. You can't control who you are attracted to, a member of the LGBT community should know that. It's like saying you chose to be gay, did you? If someone said that to me I wouldn't care. There is a difference between sexuality and racism. Also this is not about the other race "not being great" as it wasn't something you mentioned in your original point. It would be racist if I said "all black people are bad", which is completely different from "I am not attracted to black people".
You type LGTBQ+, problem solved. Now this is getting off topic so let's stop this here.

Phosphene
July 19th, 2017, 08:58 PM
somekindofsick

The term "queer" shouldn't be used to define a sexual/gender orientation (or lack of it) imo. I don't have a problem with anyone's sexual preferences; what I do have a problem with is the increasing need to manipulate the meanings of words in order to create a group to adhere to. I will not judge any LGBT+ person - no one chooses their sexuality or gender, after all - but I just don't support attaching words to oneself for the sake of achieving acceptance/unity that is actually already there. There's no need for it.

Babs
July 19th, 2017, 09:42 PM
I do not like the application of queer as a label of sexuality. In that usage I put it in the same category as the N word.

if you'll spell out the word queer in its entirety but won't even say the n word, one is clearly in a different league.

Dalcourt
July 19th, 2017, 10:50 PM
Amethyst Rose having an umbrella term in the community is of importance for a lot of people not because of lack of acceptance from outsiders but within the community.

I don't claim to remotely understand the whole thing but I see from the ever growing LGBT+ community in my hometown that there might be a lot but no unity and acceptance within the community.

People feel not rightly represented or whatever. It's the same within the black community there's also a lot of bad blood sometimes due to different skin colors or race mixes among Blacks which is also just some sort of umbrella term.

So I might not like the word as part of my day to day way to talk but if others are happy with it why not.
The Special One sure it is racism what you describe what else should it be?

All our (sexual) preferences stem from prejudices and experiences. I'm highly racist when it comes to that since I have a strong feeling for aesthetic and sorry to say that white people are unaesthetic to me. I might not think ill of white people or hate them...but the sense of beauty I learnt growing up taught me that way.
I find the color of a white person's dick just disgusting.
So what's the problem to admit that one is racist in certain areas of life?

Leprous
July 19th, 2017, 10:58 PM
Peanut_ As I said this is getting way off topic but I'll answer anyway. There is a difference between a prejudice and racism. Racism by definition is caused by a feeling of the person's race being superior to another one. If I don't feel attracted to a black person that does not mean I feel like I am better than that person, that means I simply don't prefer to be in a (sexual) relationship with that person. By the logic that not dating someone because of their race simply because of emotions, the same can be said for gay people who are sexist towards the other gender, since they don't want to date them. However I feel like it's easier to blame the straight white male when it comes to racism than the gay Muslim, since I doubt anyone would cry out racism in that case if they refuse to date a white person.

Phosphene
July 19th, 2017, 11:06 PM
Peanut_ I didn't specify unity inside or outside of the LGBT+ community because I intended it to mean both. As for representation, I still don't see the purpose of creating new terms to be more equally represented but that's just my opinion.

Dalcourt
July 19th, 2017, 11:27 PM
Peanut_ As I said this is getting way off topic but I'll answer anyway. There is a difference between a prejudice and racism. Racism by definition is caused by a feeling of the person's race being superior to another one. If I don't feel attracted to a black person that does not mean I feel like I am better than that person, that means I simply don't prefer to be in a (sexual) relationship with that person. By the logic that not dating someone because of their race simply because of emotions, the same can be said for gay people who are sexist towards the other gender, since they don't want to date them. However I feel like it's easier to blame the straight white male when it comes to racism than the gay Muslim, since I doubt anyone would cry out racism in that case if they refuse to date a white person.

I don't understand why people always have to strain language so much just to not have to admit being what they clearly are. I have no problem admitting the truth.(And don't worry colored people get called racist, too, way more than you think.)

Racism is prejudices you have due to race...sexism prejudices due to gender and feelings of superiority above the other gender ..homophobia prejudices due to sexual preferences...antisemitism prejudices due to a certain religion etc.

It's all just a matter of definition.


So it's honestly it is just a messing around with words you do here.Twisting and turning them so they fit you... and that's what you criticise about somekindofsick and the whole "gender queer community".

Everbody seems to use words the way they are convenient for them and I do not exclude myself here.
So if someone is happy with the word "queer" let them have it. If you are more happy with being called "racially prejudiced in terms of sexuality" I'll call you that instead of racist, I don't mind. To each their own ... we won't anyone being triggered and offended here, right?

Leprous
July 19th, 2017, 11:42 PM
I don't understand why people always have to strain language so much just to not have to admit being what they clearly are. I have no problem admitting the truth.(And don't worry colored people get called racist, too, way more than you think.)

Racism is prejudices you have due to race...sexism prejudices due to gender and feelings of superiority above the other gender ..homophobia prejudices due to sexual preferences...antisemitism prejudices due to a certain religion etc.

It's all just a matter of definition.


So it's honestly it is just a messing around with words you do here.Twisting and turning them so they fit you... and that's what you criticise about somekindofsick and the whole "gender queer community".

Everbody seems to use words the way they are convenient for them and I do not exclude myself here.
So if someone is happy with the word "queer" let them have it. If you are more happy with being called "racially prejudiced in terms of sexuality" I'll call you that instead of racist, I don't mind. To each their own ... we won't anyone being triggered and offended here, right?

Actually as you said it's a matter of definition, and if I see the definition of racism in a different way then neither of us are right nor wrong objectively speaking. In my opinion it is wrong though. What my problem with the word queer is is a different story. The racism was a matter of interpretation, queer is a word changed to a larger extent. My main issue with it as I have stated before is how there is a large focus on expressing yourself as an individual, yet there is a huge urge to use labels for things as simple as "not wanting sex", as those things nowadays get labelled as a sexuality. The word gay works perfectly fine as non straight people are in essence, gay. Yes there is bisexuality but still, when you are talking about same sex relationships gay is the right word to describe it, I personally feel like the word queer isn't needed and it's just an extra label that has no actual use.

nebula
July 20th, 2017, 02:09 AM
I know that these days being of LGBTQ+ is a lot more accepted than it used to be a while ago but there is still quite of a bit of stigmatisation around certain terms and even hearing the term people can prejudge the person based on their sexual preference alone. I.e., lesbian women all have short hair and dress like men; bisexual people are greedy, etc.. So maybe adapting an umbrella term would be useful so people in the LGBTQ+ community can kind of block themselves from the stigmatisation and just so they aren't as prejudged.

Dalcourt
July 20th, 2017, 03:17 AM
I know that these days being of LGBTQ+ is a lot more accepted than it used to be a while ago but there is still quite of a bit of stigmatisation around certain terms and even hearing the term people can prejudge the person based on their sexual preference alone. I.e., lesbian women all have short hair and dress like men; bisexual people are greedy, etc.. So maybe adapting an umbrella term would be useful so people in the LGBTQ+ community can kind of block themselves from the stigmatisation and just so they aren't as prejudged.

Yeah, but as long as you don't belong to a stigmatised group of people you don't see the need for an umbrella term.

As I said I don't like the word queer...( I also don't like the word broccoli as far as melodic of a word goes) but I understand and accept it when others feel more comfortable with it than the LGBTQ+ etc. thing, which I really don't like either cuz I feel it's way too complicated.

I personally just tell people I'm gay but I guess this is a term that most people grasp these days.
But I know a transgender person who is really sick and tired of explaining herself. She finds the umbrella term useful so I guess it really depends on you personal circumstances and standing within the community.

As a homosexual male I have far greater chances for getting acceptance within the whole field of the LGBTQ+ or queer community than most others.

Living For Love
July 20th, 2017, 04:37 AM
Mod note: please avoid going off topic.

Karkat
July 20th, 2017, 05:37 AM
I personally find it helpful and not derogatory. I mean, unless it was used in an extremely obviously derogatory intent, I wouldn't even be offended if a stranger called me "queer". (Whereas if a stranger called me a 'tranny' or a 'faggot', I'd have some beef)

I can use umbrella terms such as LGBT or trans (and to a lesser extent, gay or bi- although people get all uptight about using the former to refer to anyone who isn't 100000% explicitly homosexual with no deviation, and whine "UM NO THAT NOT UR TERM UR BI" but I digress) but like

I feel queer seems more fitting for me (not to mention it can include both gender and sexual orientation)

Umbrella terms are extremely convenient for everyone involved.

It would take way too long to explain that I'm a grey-asexual, pansexual with a heavy leaning towards cisgender females and transgender or genderqueer/nonbinary people afab, non-transitioning transgender man to everyone who would want to know. And that's still a pretty abridged version.

tl;dr: queer good

Bull
July 20th, 2017, 10:03 AM
if you'll spell out the word queer in its entirety but won't even say the n word, one is clearly in a different league.

Ok, so you want me to be explicit: the application of the word queer to an individual's sexuality is as inappropriate as the application of the word nigger to an individual's skin color. I am neither. I am simply human: my sexuality nor skin color changes that.

You can call yourself anything you want. Just don't assign your labels to me.
Thank you. :)

Leprous
July 20th, 2017, 10:21 AM
Yeah, but as long as you don't belong to a stigmatised group of people you don't see the need for an umbrella term.



That is not true. There are plenty of LGBT people, including me who do not feel the need to be thrown into a group and given a label, people have said it in this thread before. When you are part of a group you don't automatically want an umbrella term, it is different for each person and is not something that can just be assumed.

Babs
July 20th, 2017, 11:14 AM
Ok, so you want me to be explicit: the application of the word queer to an individual's sexuality is as inappropriate as the application of the word nigger to an individual's skin color. I am neither. I am simply human: my sexuality nor skin color changes that.

You can call yourself anything you want. Just don't assign your labels to me.
Thank you. :)

it's not that deep, i was just being humorous.

Dalcourt
July 20th, 2017, 12:19 PM
That is not true. There are plenty of LGBT people, including me who do not feel the need to be thrown into a group and given a label, people have said it in this thread before. When you are part of a group you don't automatically want an umbrella term, it is different for each person and is not something that can just be assumed.

I'm not quite sure who you want to lecture about what.
I'm a gay male...so a member of the LGBTQ+ community...
I personally don't need an umbrella term since as a gay male I'm part of the usually most widely accepted group within the community.
Nevertheless I am of the opinion that there are groups within the community who are not as understood or accepted as the group I belong to.

If they feel the need to have an umbrella term of some sort it's a matter of decency to accept this since it doesn't hurt me in any way to do so.

End of the day people are not judged by a label they give themselves or others give them but their individual actions so I don't really see much of a problem here.

Leprous
July 20th, 2017, 08:50 PM
I'm not quite sure who you want to lecture about what.
I'm a gay male...so a member of the LGBTQ+ community...
I personally don't need an umbrella term since as a gay male I'm part of the usually most widely accepted group within the community.
Nevertheless I am of the opinion that there are groups within the community who are not as understood or accepted as the group I belong to.

If they feel the need to have an umbrella term of some sort it's a matter of decency to accept this since it doesn't hurt me in any way to do so.

End of the day people are not judged by a label they give themselves or others give them but their individual actions so I don't really see much of a problem here.

I'm not trying to lecture anybody. I just feel like the word queer shouldn't be used. You don't feel the need to use it and neither do I. You agree it should be used and I respect that. My main problem is just the increasing number of labels that are being used by the LGBT community, which I just find a bit unneeded.

CrypticBread2
July 20th, 2017, 09:20 PM
I always think of it as a slur, and I get offended whenever someone calls me it. That being said, I know plenty of people who love being called it as a sense of empowerment or even identify as it. I think it is a similar case as the n word. Different people have different opinions on it.

azurzg
July 21st, 2017, 09:22 AM
Different people have different opinions on it.

You're absolutely right. But that's probably true for every word.

pjones
July 21st, 2017, 07:01 PM
where I live not being heterosexual can be a problem. people assume I'm gay because I have a boyfriend when in fact I'm bisexual, but prefer boys. Queer is not used as a friendly or enlightened term, it's definitely bordering on, if not outright hateful.

We define ourselves ultimately, so I'd encourage everyone to use whatever term they are comfortable with for their circumstances

Voice_Of_Unreason
July 22nd, 2017, 09:38 AM
It''s only offensive if you make it offensive.

That's all I have to say, good day all!

DriveAlive
July 22nd, 2017, 09:53 AM
I say queer a lot.