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View Full Version : Officers Shoot Pregnant Woman Dead After Police Say She Brandished a Knife


Mars
June 19th, 2017, 01:22 PM
SEATTLE -- A 30-year-old woman who Seattle police say they shot and killed after she came after officers with a knife has been identified by relatives as Charleena Lyles, the Seattle Times reports.

Police spokesman Detective Mark Jamieson says the woman had called police to report a burglary Sunday morning. CBS affiliate KIRO reports Lyles was pregnant.

Police tell KIRO they dispatched two officers to the apartment because they knew Lyles, who had a criminal history, and were concerned for the officers' safety.
...more here (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charleena-lyles-pregnant-woman-shot-dead-by-officers-after-police-say-she-brandished-knife/)

Who knows if what happened was true, but she was shot in front of her two kids, was pregnant, and family claims she's suffered with mental illness so... yeah, theres that.

Just JT
June 20th, 2017, 07:58 AM
That's sad no matter how truthful the story is. Someone was killed in front of their own family. That's permenant

Dalcourt
June 20th, 2017, 02:33 PM
It's sad the kids had to witness this. Apart from that it's just normal day to day police business...officers feel threatened, they shoot to kill end of story. Since it happens about every month or so and always ends the same I don't think people are horrified by these things any longer.

Uniquemind
June 24th, 2017, 09:35 PM
Cops gotta learn hand to hand combat and stop always reaching for the easy way to eliminate a threat.

Dalcourt
June 24th, 2017, 09:53 PM
Cops gotta learn hand to hand combat and stop always reaching for the easy way to eliminate a threat.

Hand you hand combat won't take you very far in the United States where never nut case you meet could have a gun with them. It is way too dangerous for a copy to risk anything here.

Uniquemind
June 25th, 2017, 02:09 AM
Hand you hand combat won't take you very far in the United States where never nut case you meet could have a gun with them. It is way too dangerous for a copy to risk anything here.

In that case though they could clearly see it's a knife.

I didn't say they couldn't use their guns, some cases they have too, that's not an argument from me. My valid criticism of them though is they reach for it too often without resorting to other methods of deescalating a situation or tranquilizer weapons or stun guns.

brandon9
July 2nd, 2017, 10:08 AM
The fact that the kids saw it is regrettable, but based on the information provided in that article, the officers were justified. The simple fact of the matter is that the woman refused to obey/comply with the demands of the officers, and was in possession of a weapon. The officers faced a credible risk to their safety, and acted accordingly to the threat. I wouldn't have engaged in hand to hand combat with her either, had she been rushing me with a knife; the closer in proximity the officers would have been to her, the more likely they would have been stabbed/cut by the knife. That's a very basic lesson in any police academy, or at least it should be. The officers did what they did because they wanted to go home that night, to their families, kids, and friends. No police officer wants to have to kill someone in the line of duty, particularly a pregnant woman, but sometimes situations happen. People tend to forget things like that, forget that officers risk their lives day in and day out in the name of protecting them, but people are quick to become "outraged" over perceived injustice without considering what these men and women stand for. Its sad, in so many ways, that so many have so little respect for the police.

Side note on this is that it mentions "racial motivation" due to the fact it was a black woman shot by white officers. The usual bullshit; not every black person shot by a white cop was killed because the cops are racist. Its a fake narrative I'm particularly sick of hearing.

DriveAlive
July 2nd, 2017, 11:22 AM
Truly heartbreaking story. I suspect mental illness is at play. Instead of attacking the police, we should be working to fix the mental healthcare in our country.

Uniquemind
July 2nd, 2017, 12:20 PM
The fact that the kids saw it is regrettable, but based on the information provided in that article, the officers were justified. The simple fact of the matter is that the woman refused to obey/comply with the demands of the officers, and was in possession of a weapon. The officers faced a credible risk to their safety, and acted accordingly to the threat. I wouldn't have engaged in hand to hand combat with her either, had she been rushing me with a knife; the closer in proximity the officers would have been to her, the more likely they would have been stabbed/cut by the knife. That's a very basic lesson in any police academy, or at least it should be. The officers did what they did because they wanted to go home that night, to their families, kids, and friends. No police officer wants to have to kill someone in the line of duty, particularly a pregnant woman, but sometimes situations happen. People tend to forget things like that, forget that officers risk their lives day in and day out in the name of protecting them, but people are quick to become "outraged" over perceived injustice without considering what these men and women stand for. Its sad, in so many ways, that so many have so little respect for the police.

Side note on this is that it mentions "racial motivation" due to the fact it was a black woman shot by white officers. The usual bullshit; not every black person shot by a white cop was killed because the cops are racist. Its a fake narrative I'm particularly sick of hearing.

It's not the race thing that bugs me, it's the fact that in the 21st century, cops still expect logical responses (ex: hear us and comply or else) from individuals whose brains are not wired logically to expect that behavior in return. Their mentally I'll for a reason. Now taxpayers gotta pay for them foster kids, in that broken foster kid system.


For decades they've reached for the gun, where is the progressive progress for policies to go for other options, including very skilled hand to hand combat as one example. I've seen asian martial artists dodge clever a, piviot, and disarm a guy in many self-defense dojo's. It's doable especially with a team of officers and a vehicle to bump the culprit with lightly.

DriveAlive
July 2nd, 2017, 01:21 PM
It's not the race thing that bugs me, it's the fact that in the 21st century, cops still expect logical responses (ex: hear us and comply or else) from individuals whose brains are not wired logically to expect that behavior in return. Their mentally I'll for a reason. Now taxpayers gotta pay for them foster kids, in that broken foster kid system.


For decades they've reached for the gun, where is the progressive progress for policies to go for other options, including very skilled hand to hand combat as one example. I've seen asian martial artists dodge clever a, piviot, and disarm a guy in many self-defense dojo's. It's doable especially with a team of officers and a vehicle to bump the culprit with lightly.

Your solution is training officers to be very skilled in hand to hand combat? And Republicans are the ones who are militarizing the police? I am joking but in all seriousness, this is not a sound solution to the problem.

I do not know a lot about martial arts so someone please step in and correct me if I am way off base here but I was under the impression that it takes years and years of rigorous training and constant preparation to be able to effectively disarm attackers and use hand to hand combat. While I am all for increasing training for officers in any way that we can, asking them to take martial arts classes and then expecting them to be able to safely subdue attackers without bodily harm is ridiculous and dangerous.

Snowfox
July 2nd, 2017, 01:33 PM
It's not the race thing that bugs me, it's the fact that in the 21st century, cops still expect logical responses (ex: hear us and comply or else) from individuals whose brains are not wired logically to expect that behavior in return. Their mentally I'll for a reason. Now taxpayers gotta pay for them foster kids, in that broken foster kid system.


For decades they've reached for the gun, where is the progressive progress for policies to go for other options, including very skilled hand to hand combat as one example. I've seen asian martial artists dodge clever a, piviot, and disarm a guy in many self-defense dojo's. It's doable especially with a team of officers and a vehicle to bump the culprit with lightly.

What about Taser or pepperspray. Oh those allready exist but pullin out gun and being old west gunslinger is more manly.

ShineintheDark
July 2nd, 2017, 05:50 PM
What about Taser or pepperspray. Oh those allready exist but pullin out gun and being old west gunslinger is more manly.

Finally somethign we agree on. The fact is it's very rare for an officer to carry a handgun here in the UK because the general populace don;t usually carry them either. Therefore, our officers are a lot less on edge and so aren't trained to use guns for every damn interaction. If you can;t physically disarm an attacker with pepperspray, batons or simple fists, you're not trained enough. Simple as. We take 10 months to train our pfficers here because it's not a job for ithe untrained, though I understand many states churn out new recruits in a matter of weeks and potentially puts out very inexperienced and badly trained officers onto the streets.

Snowfox
July 3rd, 2017, 02:05 AM
Finally somethign we agree on. The fact is it's very rare for an officer to carry a handgun here in the UK because the general populace don;t usually carry them either. Therefore, our officers are a lot less on edge and so aren't trained to use guns for every damn interaction. If you can;t physically disarm an attacker with pepperspray, batons or simple fists, you're not trained enough. Simple as. We take 10 months to train our pfficers here because it's not a job for ithe untrained, though I understand many states churn out new recruits in a matter of weeks and potentially puts out very inexperienced and badly trained officers onto the streets.

10 months LOL. In Finland its 3 years plus you have to have done high school and military service. If you want to become Motor Cycle Police its 4 years. In that training there is mandatory martial arts let it be Ju Jitsu or Judo or boxing or kickboxing or krav maga or defendo. Also training doesnt end in police academy. Cops go back to academy one week a year to update.
Oh I didnt mention fitness tests cops have to do 50 sit ups in one minute 50 push ups in one minute and then run 2800 meters in 12 minutes this being bare minimum and with whole gear on. If you fail this when academy you cant pass it if you fail it after you have graduated not so bad but fitness directly affects your salary....

Well when it comes to situation when you cant disarm with pepperspray or baton or fists you are wrong. Meth heads are steamrollers. Finnish Police officers carry gun all the time but rarely use it. It is so rare that it makes headline news for week when cop here even pulls one out.

All this while Finland has one of highest gun ownership in Europe and biggest alcohol problem.

srfrboy
July 3rd, 2017, 02:48 AM
Why do cops always seem to resort to using a gun? This is just another example of why cops have to have much better training so they don't react like that.

Dmaxd123
July 4th, 2017, 06:45 AM
does it really matter how the cop reacted?

-hit the woman with the cruiser/baton/fists people would be complaining "he hit a pregnant woman"
-use pepper spray "omg, you are injuring the child"
-just leave her be, she isn't a threat.... with a criminal background and wielding a knife (this time just a knife)

it SUCKS that she choose her actions that day, i feel terrible for her kids and I feel terrible for the officers that had to shoot someone let alone it being a pregnant woman.

but i'm putting the blame on the woman, if she had mental health issues and a criminal history she had access to mental healthcare through the state pretty much guaranteed.

I think an officer would rather resort to other means of subduing an individual BUT when you are at the door of an apartment and the person that opens it is 2' away with a knife, you don't have time to second guess and grab your taser, or switch from your taser to your sidearm if the person is brandishing a gun

ShineintheDark
July 4th, 2017, 08:05 AM
does it really matter how the cop reacted?

-hit the woman with the cruiser/baton/fists people would be complaining "he hit a pregnant woman"
-use pepper spray "omg, you are injuring the child"
-just leave her be, she isn't a threat.... with a criminal background and wielding a knife (this time just a knife)



Difference is that she'd probably be alive if they didn't use a gun. Lost the baby? Potentially. But that would be one potential life instead of killing both. I'm not criticising the officer per se since clearly they were reacting as best they could with whatever they were trained to do, I'm saying the training and experience they have is not sufficient to handle it and that will always be a recurring issue.

Snowfox
July 4th, 2017, 08:15 PM
I see biggest problem being whole "guns solve all problems" attitude.
Being police should not mean being gunslinger who rides to the scene and pulls out gun kills bad guy and then rides to sunset.
Maybe guns are not answer to all problems?