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Irishperson15
June 10th, 2017, 04:17 AM
HI, I am from Northern Ireland and I am curious to know what others in the UK or those outside the UK interested in British politics thinks about the DUP. The DUP are only a regional party based in Northern Ireland.

They have exploited protective cross-community measures to block marriage equality in Northern Ireland. (By using the petition of concern because they did not think marriage equality had cross-community support).

The DUP also are not in favour of abortion and some of their politicians have denied climate change, proposed only creationism be taught in schools to explain how the world was created and also denying gay men the right to donate blood.

If anyone wants to know more about the history of Northern Ireland, feel free to ask me. I hope you enjoy learning about such a confusing place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01jqyy7

The man in this article was just reelected as an MP on Thursday:

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/sammy-wilson-i-still-think-manmade-climate-change-is-a-con-28515999.html

This man still sits in the NI Assembly:

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/10/24/local-politician-tells-school-kids-homosexuality-is-an-abomination/

The purpose of posting this is to highlight how these dated views are still practised today by serving members of the DUP.

ShineintheDark
June 10th, 2017, 09:00 AM
We assure you that we are equally as furious and disappointed in the Tories for betraying many of their personal views and policies for the sake of staying in poer. We may have even been willing to support them as a minority government over allying themselves with a party that they so deeply disagree with. There's also the issue of the fact that we should not be involved in NI politics since it may lead to violations of the Good Friday Agreements, which no one needs right now.

mattsmith48
June 10th, 2017, 11:22 AM
This is what happen when you have a shitty electoral system producing unrepresentative results.

Irishperson15
June 10th, 2017, 07:00 PM
We assure you that we are equally as furious and disappointed in the Tories for betraying many of their personal views and policies for the sake of staying in poer. We may have even been willing to support them as a minority government over allying themselves with a party that they so deeply disagree with. There's also the issue of the fact that we should not be involved in NI politics since it may lead to violations of the Good Friday Agreements, which no one needs right now.

Wow man that's a good point. Never thought of that side of it either. Here's another one I saw. http://www.thejournal.ie/sammy-wilson-breastfeeding-2890822-Jul2016/

Unfortunately, I am a democrat and I presume you are too. We cannot argue with the will of the people, however unfair a certain FPTP system may be. But, rest assured, the DUP do not represent the majority of Northern Ireland. I think even moderate unionists voted for them this time due to the surge in the nationalist vote at our Assembly elections in March and they felt the union was under threat

This is what happen when you have a shitty electoral system producing unrepresentative results.

Reminds me of a recent election in the USA lol ..

LiamC
June 10th, 2017, 08:31 PM
Theresa May is totally spineless, she already abandoned her own views on Brexit to be PM and is now pedalling hard Brexit, and now she's doing anything to cling to a bit of power. The Tories might be awful but joining with a party that's anti LGBT and anti abortion might just be a new low.

She's getting a lot of flack here, nobody seems to be happy with it. She's failed as a prime minister possibly more than anyone in modern British history. To have called an election looking at a majority of 50 odd and actually end up short of a majority says it all, testament to her horrendous campaign and incompetency. I know it will be a disaster and a mess if we have to get a new PM so soon before Brexit but she really has to be replaced, as it'll probably be worse WITH her. She is a truly odious woman, it beggars belief that she is threatening peace, going against her views and potentially setting the UK's progress backwards because she just has to desperately claw against power.

Living For Love
June 11th, 2017, 03:15 AM
This is what happen when you have a shitty electoral system producing unrepresentative results.
Lol what would you propose, then?

Dalcourt
June 11th, 2017, 03:21 AM
I am not familiar with UK politics at all but I always thought that there weren't any coalitions possible?

Snowfox
June 11th, 2017, 03:53 AM
What is so horrible about that DUP??? Their ideas are just normal to my eye. Maybe little right leaning but they are not abominations from hell

Endeavour
June 11th, 2017, 06:13 AM
I am not familiar with UK politics at all but I always thought that there weren't any coalitions possible?

The Conservatives want a majority in the Parliament, to do that they need 326 seats. They only achieved 317, so they are asking the DUP with their 10 seats to agree to vote with them (nothing like the Tory-Lib Dem formal coalition the UK had in 2010 though) so they have a majority, kinda.

Living For Love
June 11th, 2017, 06:35 AM
What is so horrible about that DUP??? Their ideas are just normal to my eye. Maybe little right leaning but they are not abominations from hell
They are extremists. Extremist parties are always bad, whether they lean to the far-right or the far-left.

Dalcourt
June 11th, 2017, 07:02 AM
The Conservatives want a majority in the Parliament, to do that they need 326 seats. They only achieved 317, so they are asking the DUP with their 10 seats to agree to vote with them (nothing like the Tory-Lib Dem formal coalition the UK had in 2010 though) so they have a majority, kinda.

Ah okay, thanks. I was just wondering.

So they seek coalition just to have a majority and thereby betraying some of their voters who would possibly have rather votedo Labour Party if they had known Tories would go with a right wing extremist part?

Sounds kinda wrong.

What would possible alternatives be?

Endeavour
June 11th, 2017, 07:07 AM
Ah okay, thanks. I was just wondering.

So they seek coalition just to have a majority and thereby betraying some of their voters who would possibly have rather votedo Labour Party if they had known Tories would go with a right wing extremist part?

Sounds kinda wrong.

What would possible alternatives be?

Yeah. The whole point the election was brought forward was so the Conservatives could increase their majority, but with the rise in Labour (their first rise since 1997 I believe) they failed. Labour + SNP would only give 297, so the only possible majority pairing would be Tory+DUP.

ShineintheDark
June 11th, 2017, 07:43 AM
What is so horrible about that DUP??? Their ideas are just normal to my eye. Maybe little right leaning but they are not abominations from hell If they were just against POTENTIAL progressive policies, it wouldn't be as bad. But, as they are against CURRENT laws such as marriage equality, the abortion time limits and even some of the agreements made to pacify extremists in NI, the majotrity of the British people would prefer they just stay away from government.

Dalcourt
June 11th, 2017, 10:43 AM
Yeah. The whole point the election was brought forward was so the Conservatives could increase their majority, but with the rise in Labour (their first rise since 1997 I believe) they failed. Labour + SNP would only give 297, so the only possible majority pairing would be Tory+DUP.

So it sounds like there is no other way.
Will this have effects on Brexit talks?
And do you think DUP will be able to really have a say in politics then?

Endeavour
June 11th, 2017, 10:51 AM
So it sounds like there is no other way.
Will this have effects on Brexit talks?
And do you think DUP will be able to really have a say in politics then?

Both the Tories and DUP are pro-Brexit (well, at least they say they're committed to carrying it out, despite what they may have previously thought).

How it's meant to work is because the DUP are meant to support Tory policies, the Torys are expected to follow some of the DUP policies, however some of these are very controversial (LGBT rights, abortion and climate change come to mind)

mattsmith48
June 11th, 2017, 11:04 AM
Lol what would you propose, then?

Mixed-member proportional representation

Snowfox
June 14th, 2017, 02:10 PM
I have made some research and translating job about this DUP they seem to be moderate right wing Christian party and Loyalist. Maybe not my cup of tea but certainly not bad

Stronk Serb
June 16th, 2017, 12:17 PM
As long as Labour is held at bay, I'm all for it.

ShineintheDark
June 17th, 2017, 08:55 AM
Well to be fair since Labour are the second largest party of the UK by a very respectable margin, I'd advise against them being 'held at bay'

DriveAlive
June 17th, 2017, 10:54 AM
I cannot believe that Jeremy Corbyn got any support at all. He is a complete fool. I am so sick of these socialist candidates getting the support of millennials who just want free stuff.

I like Theresa May and hope that she stays in power. I wanted Hillary Clinton and Marine Le Pen to win as well. It would be great to see the most powerful countries in western world (America, England, France, Germany) to all have female leaders.

mattsmith48
June 18th, 2017, 11:34 AM
I cannot believe that Jeremy Corbyn got any support at all. He is a complete fool. I am so sick of these socialist candidates getting the support of millennials who just want free stuff.

Those socialists wanting equal opportunity for everyone, so annoying right.

I like Theresa May and hope that she stays in power. I wanted Hillary Clinton and Marine Le Pen to win as well. It would be great to see the most powerful countries in western world (America, England, France, Germany) to all have female leaders.

I'm all for having women leaders, but they need to have good policies and be competent for the job. The world would be better with Hillary Clinton as US president instead of President Man-Child, she was probably the most competent candidate in history, but she was terrible at campaigning and her most of her policies are too conservatives, Marine Le Pen as been compared to Donald Trump on multiple occasions, and Theresa May we are seeing the results of that. Jill Stein in the US and Elizabeth May here in Canada are example of women with great ideas and who would have been great leaders, but because of shitty electoral systems had no chance win.

DriveAlive
June 18th, 2017, 07:42 PM
Those socialists wanting equal opportunity for everyone, so annoying right.



I'm all for having women leaders, but they need to have good policies and be competent for the job. The world would be better with Hillary Clinton as US president instead of President Man-Child, she was probably the most competent candidate in history, but she was terrible at campaigning and her most of her policies are too conservatives, Marine Le Pen as been compared to Donald Trump on multiple occasions, and Theresa May we are seeing the results of that. Jill Stein in the US and Elizabeth May here in Canada are example of women with great ideas and who would have been great leaders, but because of shitty electoral systems had no chance win.
Jill Stein is an anti-vaccer and pro-life loon.

Socialism as it is peddled by the current set of political clowns is dangerously irresponsible for our country, which is being crushed by our debt.

I have nothing but praise for Clinton and Le Pen. Honestly, I am less familiar with May but before the snap election I thought she was very smart and competent, though my faith in her is a little shaken now.

mattsmith48
June 18th, 2017, 09:27 PM
Jill Stein is an anti-vaccer and pro-life loon.

The anti-vaxxers claim have been debunked, shes a doctor it wouldn't make any sense for a doctor to be against vaccination it would be like a firefighter being against water. And its the 1st time I ear shes pro-life. Even if it was true, I have no problem with someone being pro-life as long they care as much about it after it comes out of the womb.

Socialism as it is peddled by the current set of political clowns is dangerously irresponsible for our country, which is being crushed by our debt.

No what's is irresponsible is massive tax cuts for rich people, fighting unnecessary wars and putting them on the credit card, demonizing immigrants and Muslims, subsidies to oil companies, building stupid pipelines, or forming a coalition with a homophobic, science denying religious party just to stay in power. That is a lot more irresponsible than giving people free education.

DriveAlive
June 18th, 2017, 09:35 PM
The anti-vaxxers claim have been debunked, shes a doctor it wouldn't make any sense for a doctor to be against vaccination it would be like a firefighter being against water. And its the 1st time I ear shes pro-life. Even if it was true, I have no problem with someone being pro-life as long they care as much about it after it comes out of the womb.



No what's is irresponsible is massive tax cuts for rich people, fighting unnecessary wars and putting them on the credit card, demonizing immigrants and Muslims, subsidies to oil companies, building stupid pipelines, or forming a coalition with a homophobic, science denying religious party just to stay in power. That is a lot more irresponsible than giving people free education.

It does not make sense for her to be that way but she is...

We need massive tax cuts for everyone. Maybe we would need less public services if people could afford these services themselves. I am still not entirely against a negative income tax.

I literally just said I had a problem with creating budget deficits and increasing the national debt. This has been a mainstay of recent conservative politics.

There is a difference between disagreeing with immigration policies and the state of the muslim world and demonizing them.

Oil companies, like all companies, should not receive subsidies.

I do not agree with the political positions of the DUP, but it is probably better for May to have a majority than it is to let the government fall into chaos and indecision while trying to conduct Brexit negotiations.

I have said multiple times that not everyone needs a college degree. Not only does it devalue the degree but it also hurts blue collar workers who do not need to be bearing the cost of getting a degree that they do not need. Some people still need to be plumbers and electricians and work in factories or as garbage men. They do not need degrees. Therefore, it is irresponsible to bankrupt the country for generations to provide a service that people do not need.

mattsmith48
June 18th, 2017, 10:11 PM
I do not agree with the political positions of the DUP, but it is probably better for May to have a majority than it is to let the government fall into chaos and indecision while trying to conduct Brexit negotiations.


Crazy idea, what about having party compromising and working together into what is best for the population instead of having a single party who didn't get the majority of the votes wrecking the country.

for the rest of the stuff you said this is probably not the best place to talk about it if you want to start a thread on it go ahead

DriveAlive
June 18th, 2017, 10:34 PM
Crazy idea, what about having party compromising and working together into what is best for the population instead of having a single party who didn't get the majority of the votes wrecking the country.

for the rest of the stuff you said this is probably not the best place to talk about it if you want to start a thread on it go ahead

Like Corbyn is going to compromise. He is a loon and terrorist sympathizer. Do not get me wrong, I am all for working together and striking compromises; however, there are certain situations where you have no choice but work alone. When one party is led by Corbyn and they are entirely against any form of Brexit, it does not leave you many options.

mattsmith48
June 18th, 2017, 11:16 PM
Like Corbyn is going to compromise. He is a loon and terrorist sympathizer. Do not get me wrong, I am all for working together and striking compromises; however, there are certain situations where you have no choice but work alone. When one party is led by Corbyn and they are entirely against any form of Brexit, it does not leave you many options.

Terrorist sympathizer? Reallly?

As For Brexit no matter who they work with in parliament, they still won't have many options when it comes to negotiate with the EU, they want to make an example of the UK to prevent anyone else from leaving.

DriveAlive
June 18th, 2017, 11:25 PM
Terrorist sympathizer? Reallly?

As For Brexit no matter who they work with in parliament, they still won't have many options when it comes to negotiate with the EU, they want to make an example of the UK to prevent anyone else from leaving.

He has shown sympathy for the IRA, Hamas, and Hezbollah.

And you are right there are not many options in the negotiation and it will be incredibly difficult. That is why they wanted a majority so they would not have to deal with infighting in the government too.

mattsmith48
June 19th, 2017, 12:02 AM
He has shown sympathy for the IRA, Hamas, and Hezbollah.

And you are right there are not many options in the negotiation and it will be incredibly difficult. That is why they wanted a majority so they would not have to deal with infighting in the government too.

Well ''majority'' the last time the UK elected a real majority was in 1935. That being said they already had a majority of the seats and didn't need more too negotiate Brexit, they called an election anyway they got a minority government out of it, and because of it they should work with every party on this.

DriveAlive
June 19th, 2017, 12:46 AM
Well ''majority'' the last time the UK elected a real majority was in 1935. That being said they already had a majority of the seats and didn't need more too negotiate Brexit, they called an election anyway they got a minority government out of it, and because of it they should work with every party on this.

I do not disagree. But that also does not mean that May should resign

ShineintheDark
June 19th, 2017, 04:09 AM
When one party is led by Corbyn and they are entirely against any form of Brexit, it does not leave you many options.

I'd like to interject here actually. labour have and will continue to be supportive of Brexit because that's what the people voted for. In fact it was written in the manifesto exactly what their version of Brexit would be and how they would go about it. The fact that they didn't oppose the Tories on Brexit was a major controversy in the UK and the fact that you assumed otherwise implies that you just assumed, which would not be wise. If you wanna dump on anti-Brexit parties, feel free to take a shot at the LibDems or Green all you want.

DriveAlive
June 19th, 2017, 09:21 AM
I'd like to interject here actually. labour have and will continue to be supportive of Brexit because that's what the people voted for. In fact it was written in the manifesto exactly what their version of Brexit would be and how they would go about it. The fact that they didn't oppose the Tories on Brexit was a major controversy in the UK and the fact that you assumed otherwise implies that you just assumed, which would not be wise. If you wanna dump on anti-Brexit parties, feel free to take a shot at the LibDems or Green all you want.

I did not know that they had it written into their manifesto. Thank you. I had heard that they were calling for a soft Brexit that would basically be like no Brexit at all. That is hardly a party supporting a Brexit.

Stronk Serb
June 27th, 2017, 04:47 AM
Well to be fair since Labour are the second largest party of the UK by a very respectable margin, I'd advise against them being 'held at bay'

Actually I am all for that. Labour's policies will be economically detrimental to the country. I mean they fucking praise Hugo Chavez who paved the way to shit in Venezuela.

Those socialists wanting equal opportunity for everyone, so annoying right.



I'm all for having women leaders, but they need to have good policies and be competent for the job. The world would be better with Hillary Clinton as US president instead of President Man-Child, she was probably the most competent candidate in history, but she was terrible at campaigning and her most of her policies are too conservatives, Marine Le Pen as been compared to Donald Trump on multiple occasions, and Theresa May we are seeing the results of that. Jill Stein in the US and Elizabeth May here in Canada are example of women with great ideas and who would have been great leaders, but because of shitty electoral systems had no chance win.

Socialists nowadays would rather fuck you up than do something good for their people. One of the meain reason I went to the right wing is because I realized that socialism just doesn't work.

ShineintheDark
June 27th, 2017, 07:16 AM
Actually I am all for that. Labour's policies will be economically detrimental to the country. I mean they fucking praise Hugo Chavez who paved the way to shit in Venezuela.


Ah yes, it was Chavez and NOT Saudi Arabia flooding the oil market in 2014 OR ricker trade partners hoarding Venezualan products only to sell them off for a higher price OR sanctions by the USA for the sole purpose of destabilising the nation in order for their own corporations to attempt to swoop in and retain capatalist control over the nation. I mean, Chavez was in no way an angel but by God don't ignore the fact that he was screwed over.

mattsmith48
June 28th, 2017, 12:49 PM
One of the meain reason I went to the right wing is because I realized that socialism just doesn't work.

With the exception of in every socialist country.

Snowfox
June 28th, 2017, 01:26 PM
It does not make sense for her to be that way but she is...

We need massive tax cuts for everyone. Maybe we would need less public services if people could afford these services themselves. I am still not entirely against a negative income tax.

I literally just said I had a problem with creating budget deficits and increasing the national debt. This has been a mainstay of recent conservative politics.

There is a difference between disagreeing with immigration policies and the state of the muslim world and demonizing them.

Oil companies, like all companies, should not receive subsidies.

I do not agree with the political positions of the DUP, but it is probably better for May to have a majority than it is to let the government fall into chaos and indecision while trying to conduct Brexit negotiations.

I have said multiple times that not everyone needs a college degree. Not only does it devalue the degree but it also hurts blue collar workers who do not need to be bearing the cost of getting a degree that they do not need. Some people still need to be plumbers and electricians and work in factories or as garbage men. They do not need degrees. Therefore, it is irresponsible to bankrupt the country for generations to provide a service that people do not need.

I just want to point out that electricians and plumbers actually do need a degree. It just is not college degree. But all in all they have to get some kind of degree so they can prove that they actually know what they are doing. Same goes for many bluecollar jobs, You have to be able to prove that you know what you are doing. It doesnt have to be college or university degree thats true.

To the topic I have to also say that in times when your party didnt get straight majority you have to form coalition to get it. This obviously means compromises. So called multicoalition with every major party is horribly bad idea believe me Finland has seen how bad that is. It leads to situation where anykind of decisions become impossible when everyone seeks consensus all the time.
Inability to make decisions is bad situation and when it comes to country like UK which anyway is one of the big players it is even worse.

Posts merged. Please use the edit function rather than posting consecutively. ~Amethyst Rose

DriveAlive
June 28th, 2017, 04:28 PM
I just want to point out that electricians and plumbers actually do need a degree. It just is not college degree. But all in all they have to get some kind of degree so they can prove that they actually know what they are doing. Same goes for many bluecollar jobs, You have to be able to prove that you know what you are doing. It doesnt have to be college or university degree thats true.

Not a degree. It usually involves going to vocational school, though many do not.

Stronk Serb
June 28th, 2017, 09:36 PM
Ah yes, it was Chavez and NOT Saudi Arabia flooding the oil market in 2014 OR ricker trade partners hoarding Venezualan products only to sell them off for a higher price OR sanctions by the USA for the sole purpose of destabilising the nation in order for their own corporations to attempt to swoop in and retain capatalist control over the nation. I mean, Chavez was in no way an angel but by God don't ignore the fact that he was screwed over.

He increased government soending and meddled in economic affairs so much that he made doing business as hard as possible. Maduro just topped it off.

With the exception of in every socialist country.

Give me a country that hasbit great under socialism, please.

Snowfox
June 29th, 2017, 02:03 AM
Not a degree. It usually involves going to vocational school, though many do not.

Here its either vocational school+ training time in industry or apprenticeship and in both situations person has to complete series of tests that are set up by industry and state in co-operation.
After those tests are accepted and those are not peace of cake then person gets a "degree" that being for example plumber.

Also vocational school has normal subjects like math, English, Swedish, Finnish, Chemistry etc etc and later person who has done either vocational school or apprenticeship system can get higher education. For example plumber can become engineer by going to polytech-college and so on.

DriveAlive
June 29th, 2017, 10:28 AM
Here its either vocational school+ training time in industry or apprenticeship and in both situations person has to complete series of tests that are set up by industry and state in co-operation.
After those tests are accepted and those are not peace of cake then person gets a "degree" that being for example plumber.

Also vocational school has normal subjects like math, English, Swedish, Finnish, Chemistry etc etc and later person who has done either vocational school or apprenticeship system can get higher education. For example plumber can become engineer by going to polytech-college and so on.

Once again, this is a simple case of not in America.

mattsmith48
June 29th, 2017, 02:37 PM
Give me a country that hasbit great under socialism, please.

Sweden

DriveAlive
June 29th, 2017, 02:59 PM
Sweden

Because of a small population, timber harvesting, and lack of immigrants.

mattsmith48
June 29th, 2017, 03:37 PM
Because of a small population, timber harvesting, and lack of immigrants.

Population and immigration are not the biggest factors, socialism can also work in countries with a bigger population, its more about how and where the country put it's money.

DriveAlive
June 30th, 2017, 01:27 AM
Population and immigration are not the biggest factors, socialism can also work in countries with a bigger population, its more about how and where the country put it's money.

Nope. Simply does not work. Has not worked. Will never work.

Snowfox
June 30th, 2017, 09:46 AM
Because of a small population, timber harvesting, and lack of immigrants.

Hey that is my neighbour country anyway and your reasons are biased.

Real reasons are that Sweden has not participated in any war since 1809. Timber harvesting is one good point but bigger point is that they own biggest Iron ore deposit in Europe which is called Luossavaara-Kiirunavaara. This huge mine is run by Swedish state owned company LKAB (name means Luossavaara-Kiirunavaara aktiebolaget).
Swedish population is not small when we compare it to their geographical size. It is not small not big either.
Key point in their wealth is that they have their own currency and therefore they have possibility to devalvation when necessary.

Lack of immigrants..... LOL Sweden has one of biggest immigrant problems in world. Every major city there has at least dozen nogo zones and swedish police has lost that battle decades ago. Cars burn if not daily at least weekly basis. Places like Rinkeby or Tensta have become terrorist asylums. Sweden is nowadays one of saddest powder keg in europe.

Bit editing here---> So sweden has some socialism especially its sad immigration policy. But wealth of that country is mostly based on privatelly owned industries like Volvo or Bofors or SEB and 0% inheritance tax.
Sweden is business friendly while it has kinda high tax-rate and it has some government owned monopoly companies.
Not complete Socialism more like moxed economy.

DriveAlive
June 30th, 2017, 10:25 AM
Hey that is my neighbour country anyway and your reasons are biased.

Real reasons are that Sweden has not participated in any war since 1809. Timber harvesting is one good point but bigger point is that they own biggest Iron ore deposit in Europe which is called Luossavaara-Kiirunavaara. This huge mine is run by Swedish state owned company LKAB (name means Luossavaara-Kiirunavaara aktiebolaget).
Swedish population is not small when we compare it to their geographical size. It is not small not big either.
Key point in their wealth is that they have their own currency and therefore they have possibility to devalvation when necessary.

Lack of immigrants..... LOL Sweden has one of biggest immigrant problems in world. Every major city there has at least dozen nogo zones and swedish police has lost that battle decades ago. Cars burn if not daily at least weekly basis. Places like Rinkeby or Tensta have become terrorist asylums. Sweden is nowadays one of saddest powder keg in europe.

Bit editing here---> So sweden has some socialism especially its sad immigration policy. But wealth of that country is mostly based on privatelly owned industries like Volvo or Bofors or SEB and 0% inheritance tax.
Sweden is business friendly while it has kinda high tax-rate and it has some government owned monopoly companies.
Not complete Socialism more like moxed economy.
I stand corrected. Sweden is much worse than I imagined.

Stronk Serb
June 30th, 2017, 10:49 AM
Sweden

So Sweden has a nationalized economy, Ikea and Volvo are government owned, right? the definition of socialism is that there is no private property and all businesses are state-owned.

Snowfox
June 30th, 2017, 10:59 AM
Stronk Serb and mattsmith48 Sweden is not socialist country It has some nationalized companies like LKAB and Systembolaget (boozemonopoly). It is a welfare state.
High taxation but business friendly. Anyway swedes have ruined their country to powder keg by letting literally anyone to come there and claim benefits. Europes rape capitol is sweden. It has way too many no go zones to even count.

DriveAlive
June 30th, 2017, 11:23 AM
Stronk Serb and mattsmith48 Sweden is not socialist country It has some nationalized companies like LKAB and Systembolaget (boozemonopoly). It is a welfare state.
High taxation but business friendly. Anyway swedes have ruined their country to powder keg by letting literally anyone to come there and claim benefits. Europes rape capitol is sweden. It has way too many no go zones to even count.

I think I read somewhere that 60% of women in Sweden report sexual assault at some point in their lives.

mattsmith48
June 30th, 2017, 12:20 PM
DriveAlive Snowfox Stronk Serb A fully socialist or fully capitalist country does not work. You need socialism with a small and reasonable mix of capitalism, Sweden as well as other European countries are a good example of that.

Snowfox
June 30th, 2017, 12:27 PM
mattsmith48 its better other way around. Market economy with close to 0% inheritance tax and then we can add some socialism to it. But keep in mind that all kind of welfare collapses when amount of those who pay it is less than those who get it.
Mass immigration combined to generous welfare = Huge problem

mattsmith48
June 30th, 2017, 06:02 PM
mattsmith48 its better other way around. Market economy with close to 0% inheritance tax and then we can add some socialism to it. But keep in mind that all kind of welfare collapses when amount of those who pay it is less than those who get it.
Mass immigration combined to generous welfare = Huge problem

You realize there is more to socialism than welfare right?

Stronk Serb
June 30th, 2017, 07:18 PM
DriveAlive Snowfox Stronk Serb A fully socialist or fully capitalist country does not work. You need socialism with a small and reasonable mix of capitalism, Sweden as well as other European countries are a good example of that.

Other European countries? Anything that is not France, Germany, UK, Ireland and Nordic is pretty much crap. As a native European I call bullshit on that claim. Honestly, I am for neither. Labour and business laws should be made as guidelines to making a successful business, not to make it harder. All wekfare states acceot immigrants because the whole welfare state is a Ponzi scheme, it requires more and more taxpayers. Since booming babies is out of fashion, time to bring in the immigrants.

Snowfox
June 30th, 2017, 11:57 PM
Welfare state is like mandatory insurance company. You cant decide to not to be their customer. And that insurance company works as non profit basis. If it is ponzi scheme this brings insurance companies to interesting light.
Bringing immigrants would be good idea in case they actually work and are productive but muslim immigrants are not productive they start relying to welfare from point they come in and they are on dole rest of their lifes and next generation is doing same and so on. This doesnt help Ponzi in any way.
Socialist know this pretty well. They just ignore facts because of idealism.