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PlasmaHam
June 9th, 2017, 09:58 PM
I am moving the discussion regarding the Senior Staff to this thread. I feel it was getting to distracting from the OP's original concern, and the the original purpose of the thread. This is a topic worthy of its own thread, so let it have its own thread.
ImCoolBeans, xXl0sth0peXx, City Kid, Endeavour, Living For Love, Mars.
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(Continued from pedophile thread)

Editing to address PlasmaHam -
I am not capable of promoting or hiring anyone to senior staff to help me. It isn't primarily my job to be handling basic moderation - that's what our greenies are for - but if you think not enough is being done, I can try to step in and help out more in that regard too. I am not asking you personal to hire new people, the admin should be active enough to do atleast that. However, I do suggest that you pressure the admins (or atleast the single semi-active one) to hire someone to help you.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, but if you or any of the other staff feel that their personal responsibilities prevent them from accomplishing their VT duties to a satisfactory degree, and that they feel others could accomplish their VT duties more effectively, then they should be the right thing and resign. I'm not saying you should immediately resign, but I just ask you and all the staff to evaluate their performance, and ask themselves if they are the best people to staff VT. If you feel you are lacking, but there isn't anyone you find personally suitable to take your place, then your priority is to train users to succeed you.

Elysium
June 9th, 2017, 10:21 PM
Got it. Will repost my response then -

(You don't sound harsh, don't worry. I'm open to constructive criticism.)

Val and I are still discussing the recent mod apps. It hasn't been forgotten, it's just... slow.

Like I said, I've been keeping things running - I haven't let my personal life get in the way of that - although I suppose my motivation has to some extent taken a hit due to personal circumstances. Even if I was performing my job poorly and/or no longer wanting to do it though, we're not currently in a position where I'm capable of stepping down. There's too few people; my stepping down would be doing the current staff and the site a disservice more than a favor. In my opinion, anyway. Maybe in the future, when we have more staff and promote better global mods, but for the moment it is what it is. At any rate, I can't speak for others. I'm quite possibly not the best person for this job, but I'm here and willing to do it and trying my best and I think that suffices for now. It's something, right? I've been doing it for a few years now, anyway.

Supervision is my primary duty, yes. "Behind the scenes" I provide feedback and guidance when/where I can, but you're not off-target; I pretty much only step in when things come up. Perhaps I've left too much of the work to our greenies. I got in the habit of encouraging them to work things out themselves and learn on their own, but perhaps I've taken it too far.

I don't think it's a matter of how qualified or capable our current mods are, from what I can tell. They're wonderful, dedicated, and excited to be doing what they're doing. I think it's a matter of resources, my own morale, and to a much smaller, minor extent, personal opinion.

It's also been suggested to me that I be a little more public - it's been a while since I've contributed to the forums in a non-staff manner. I'm happy to try to integrate myself into the community again, as much as I'm capable of doing so, and doing some more of the basic mod work myself.

If you have something specific in mind (certain users, posts, threads, topics) that you think aren't being addressed, please take it up with me via PM. I'm open to criticism and I want to make constructive change as much as I'm able.

Periphery
June 10th, 2017, 01:35 AM
Elysium You've said that when you report someone you need proof right? Is the exact same behavior, exact same location and even the exact same signature not a bit suspicious to the staff? Especially when they are matched with a banned account. Is it just me being overly concerned because this same account was seen on another forum behaving like a 50 year old guy hunting for nudes from underage girls, or is it also concerning to you, knowing P101 is full of fake accounts not being dealt with?

I would like to also personally ask something to the current mods in the mother nature forum since the account I report usually posts there.

Mars Amethyst Rose

When I report this account, do you look into it or just think "oh god this guy again" and ignore it? Even if you in any way hold a grudge against me, that shouldn't stop you from doing your job and atleast looking at it. I may be completely wrong here, and this is not meant as an attack towards the two of you. I am just wondering really what happens to the report, if anything happens. I would love to hear your opinions on this.

Elysium I'm glad you are listening to what I'm saying, as one of 2 staff members that have replied to me so far (I expected more at first but still, thank you for taking the time to reply and not shit on me). As far as I know, for the average VT member it seems like a person who is invisible has been active since their last post, we have no real way of knowing wether or not this is true. You say it's not about how dedicated the staff is, but in some extent it is, atleast to me. There are still staff members who don't moderate a lot (or at all), which is something I don't think should be happening without atleast making it clear to that person. It may happen in certain cases, I don't know what goes on between the staff. I feel like there is a dedication problem for the staff, I'm not meaning that towards anyone speicific, but in general. When we report someone, and it's being ignored, it makes us feel like our reports don't matter. A simple PM explaining why it hasn't/won't be dealt with is really all it takes to atleast take the feeling of being ignored away.

Over the last few months there has been a decline in both active members and staff. The first one being a result of both age and life, but also the decline in staff. Some people will get the impression VT can't be run anymore by the staff and will call it quits before it turns into govteen. I have thought about leaving for this reason too, multiple times. There is an application open now, but I feel like it came too late.

Amethyst Rose
June 10th, 2017, 08:26 AM
The Special One I know which account you're referring to, and I have looked into possible duplicates of said member in the past. Yes there are similarities, but as a sectional moderator I don't have access to all the information that should be taken into account - or the ability - to actually ban them, whether I want to or not. I'm not saying that dupes can't be identified through what you've said above, because they can and have been. I support your claim but feel it is impulsive for me to freeze without knowing all the information that I can't see when the posts aren't doing any harm. I'd be happy to look into it again and see what becomes of it, though. Also, until this is figured out, the posts in Mother Nature themselves have no content that implies seeking inappropriate activity, so nothing can be done about those.

Regarding the staff's current state: I honestly think we are understaffed. If interest and potential are exhibited I fully support hiring more moderators. I say interest and potential because not all who are interested are qualified to be on staff, and not all who have the potential want to apply.

The inactivity of some staff members ties into the point about potential; I know that everyone here is capable of doing their job well. Does that mean we all do it to the best of our ability 100% of the time? I can't speak for everyone else, but my answer is yes. I know we all have lives of our own, but if we're in these positions, VT should definitely be a priority, not something that gets pushed to the back burner. It's understandable to go through short stints of inactivity sometimes - I'm about to be gone myself. But I know that our presence here (and lack of it) has an effect on the members, both performing our duties as staff and just participating in discussions in the community. I don't want people to have an "us and them" mentality; we all make this site possible. VT wouldn't exist if it weren't for the mutualism between staff and non-staff - staff needs members to have a site, and members need staff to keep it running and civil.

I actually really appreciate threads like these. Receiving criticism and taking it to heart helps you grow, and there's always room for growth. Sometimes it's hard to stomach criticism because it's not what we want to hear... but the reality is, we need it. It's a good thing. So thank you to everyone who has given your honest opinions of us.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 08:52 AM
Elysium You've said that when you report someone you need proof right? Is the exact same behavior, exact same location and even the exact same signature not a bit suspicious to the staff? Especially when they are matched with a banned account. Is it just me being overly concerned because this same account was seen on another forum behaving like a 50 year old guy hunting for nudes from underage girls, or is it also concerning to you, knowing P101 is full of fake accounts not being dealt with?

I would like to also personally ask something to the current mods in the mother nature forum since the account I report usually posts there.
For same behavior - if you could link me to specific posts, that'd be great. I usually skim latest posts due to time constraints, but that's not always indicative of much. Location is generally treated as circumstantial (there are exceptions of course), and the same signature... I recall them not being the same, or having seen something to the contrary, but I really don't remember. If you'd like to PM me with the information again I'll take another look into it.

Elysium I'm glad you are listening to what I'm saying, as one of 2 staff members that have replied to me so far (I expected more at first but still, thank you for taking the time to reply and not shit on me). As far as I know, for the average VT member it seems like a person who is invisible has been active since their last post, we have no real way of knowing wether or not this is true. You say it's not about how dedicated the staff is, but in some extent it is, atleast to me. There are still staff members who don't moderate a lot (or at all), which is something I don't think should be happening without atleast making it clear to that person. It may happen in certain cases, I don't know what goes on between the staff. I feel like there is a dedication problem for the staff, I'm not meaning that towards anyone speicific, but in general. When we report someone, and it's being ignored, it makes us feel like our reports don't matter. A simple PM explaining why it hasn't/won't be dealt with is really all it takes to atleast take the feeling of being ignored away.

Over the last few months there has been a decline in both active members and staff. The first one being a result of both age and life, but also the decline in staff. Some people will get the impression VT can't be run anymore by the staff and will call it quits before it turns into govteen. I have thought about leaving for this reason too, multiple times. There is an application open now, but I feel like it came too late.
I think I'm just beating other people to responding :P But yeah, of course. This is my job and I want to improve.

To be fair, a lot of basic moderation isn't obvious - a large part of our jobs involves moderating profiles, after all. We, the senior staff, are aware of inactivity if/when it happens and we address it and try to work with people. We don't just leave it there indefinitely, but we don't like having to let anyone go because of it.

If someone keeps reporting the same thing because they're not seeing any resolution to it but we have a reason for not taking action, we'll usually ultimately PM them and explain. If that didn't happen in your case, I'm sorry, and we can make it a clearer part of our protocol. We get a lot of reports though, I'm not sure how easy it would be to respond to everything that doesn't get handled.

As for new staff apps - well, better late then never, right?

With regards to activity - I know I keep myself invisible for my own comfort, but as I mentioned (possibly in the last thread or my last reply here? I lost track), it's been suggested to me that I participate more as just another user and not in my capacity as a staff member. Would that help?

azure moonstone
June 10th, 2017, 09:20 AM
As a former staff member (and senior staff member) I can see both sides of this. I really know how hard it is to balance life offline and responsibility as a moderator here. This sometimes can feel like a full-time job in itself...if you're actually taking the time to do it.

The perception, however, is that some aren't taking the time to do it. I understand that everyone has classes, jobs, social life, etc....but it's hard to know when staff members are there even when are actually there. Everyone has a right to privacy, and I respect that - but I think an important point has been made by a few people now (and even staff members themselves). I've had conversations with people who are on staff and who are not on staff here and they all say the same thing.

The senior staff has made themselves completely inaccessible. I know that global moderators and administrators do a lot of work behind the scenes. There's a lot of work to making decisions and adding features to the forum. To the general public, you're not there. No one knows you have done anything since your last public post (regardless of what you do in any private forums here). As far as most people know, there are three senior staff members and none of them are ever visible. Who knows to send a PM with a concern if you're never there? Someone once asked me while I was a green moderator (GD mod) why I was invisible, and even voiced concerns about my accessibility. It concerned me so much that the rest of my time on VT staff I stayed visible. I wanted to be someone that people could ask questions or voice their concerns to. I'm struggling to find the justification for staying invisible 24/7, to be honest.

What also concerns me about what's being said is the idea of staff members (and that includes all staff members) being reactive versus being proactive. I've gotten the impression that most (not all) want to just wait around and handle reports as they come up. Hardly anyone scans their sections on a regular basis. Let's get real here for a few minutes....most of p101 is a bunch of bullshit pervert threads that aren't technically about puberty. Also, it seems that no one is actively checking accounts on a regular basis. That's a huge safety concern on a teen forum like VT. Most people are in agreement here that many overage, fake, and duplicate accounts exist. People make accounts to be absolute perverts here on VT.

I agree with Amethyst Rose about being understaffed. Hell, if I would have known that moderators would have quit after I retired...I never would have retired. As far as I knew (and it had been discussed) we had plenty of moderators that seemed enthusiastic and plans to promote someone in the very near future. Almost a year later, that person has not been promoted and multiple moderators have left. And full disclosure for everyone here, I did offer to come back to the staff to help with the GMod duties and help train and promote moderators...but was refused. I honestly want what's best for VT, and I'm not surprised that has finally caught up to where we are right now.

PlasmaHam
June 10th, 2017, 09:35 AM
One thing I saw in a prior forum, is that when you reported something, the staff would send you a message concerning it. If the staff dealt with the reported problem, they would send a small message to the reporter saying the problem has been dealt with. If the mod finds the report lacking, then they may PM the reporter, telling them why the they didn't carry out the report, and possibly ask for more evidence. You might want to look into having this as standard modding procedure. It only takes a minute to do, and it goes to show the regular folks that their reports actually matter.

My suggestion also is to have more regular staff replacements. We've needed new mods for months now, yet nothing has been done. Perhaps VT should have tri-yearly mod applications. instead of frantically searching for new mods after the old ones start leaving, you can just pick the best guy from the last application. Would make mod transitions easier and faster, preventing situations like this from happening.

DerBear
June 10th, 2017, 10:19 AM
Being someone who tends to not post much these days and comes to lurk and see how things are going. I must admit I've seen over the last year a massive hit in staff retention. Not hiring as I've seen several staff hired but in terms of them actually sticking around for very long....it seems like very few have.

For those who don't know I was a H&A mod for about 18-20 months or so. My advice to current H&A mods is that you need to be accessible and pro active when dealing with your section. For example P101 is messy by nature and there is a lot of gray area when it comes to moderating that section but what you need to ensure is that you moderate consistently and you scan your areas to be on top of things. A good mod doesn't wait for reports, they pro actively engage their sections.

Now to members who think that some mods might not be that active, a lot does go on behind the scenes by both senior and green level staff. For example visitor and post moderation, infractions and also handling private reports as well as staff discussion.

For staff being shown as offline - its a difficult one because if you're taking a step back from VT because you're on holiday, busy with exams or personal problems then its a good idea to be invisible for that time because members notice that person is offline and they won't contact them as much. The problem is if everyone is offline then members don't know who to contact and it puts the mods who are online and shown to be active in the who's online section under pressure as they're likely to get contacted more.

Some have highlighted the lack of active senior staff. A potential issue with the administration is that they're older now, in the later years of further education/full time working and that means they've got less time for VT but there isn't anything more they can do, that's why the staff have to work together as a team.

Recently mod applications have went out and will still be under review. I hope that they have some promising candidates but as the site has seen an activity drop, that does also lead to less potential candidates who fit the bill.

I hope this bump is the road can be passed and that VT has a bright future.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 10:39 AM
As a former staff member (and senior staff member) I can see both sides of this. I really know how hard it is to balance life offline and responsibility as a moderator here. This sometimes can feel like a full-time job in itself...if you're actually taking the time to do it.

The perception, however, is that some aren't taking the time to do it. I understand that everyone has classes, jobs, social life, etc....but it's hard to know when staff members are there even when are actually there. Everyone has a right to privacy, and I respect that - but I think an important point has been made by a few people now (and even staff members themselves). I've had conversations with people who are on staff and who are not on staff here and they all say the same thing.

The senior staff has made themselves completely inaccessible. I know that global moderators and administrators do a lot of work behind the scenes. There's a lot of work to making decisions and adding features to the forum. To the general public, you're not there. No one knows you have done anything since your last public post (regardless of what you do in any private forums here). As far as most people know, there are three senior staff members and none of them are ever visible. Who knows to send a PM with a concern if you're never there? Someone once asked me while I was a green moderator (GD mod) why I was invisible, and even voiced concerns about my accessibility. It concerned me so much that the rest of my time on VT staff I stayed visible. I wanted to be someone that people could ask questions or voice their concerns to. I'm struggling to find the justification for staying invisible 24/7, to be honest.

What also concerns me about what's being said is the idea of staff members (and that includes all staff members) being reactive versus being proactive. I've gotten the impression that most (not all) want to just wait around and handle reports as they come up. Hardly anyone scans their sections on a regular basis. Let's get real here for a few minutes....most of p101 is a bunch of bullshit pervert threads that aren't technically about puberty. Also, it seems that no one is actively checking accounts on a regular basis. That's a huge safety concern on a teen forum like VT. Most people are in agreement here that many overage, fake, and duplicate accounts exist. People make accounts to be absolute perverts here on VT.

I agree with Amethyst Rose about being understaffed. Hell, if I would have known that moderators would have quit after I retired...I never would have retired. As far as I knew (and it had been discussed) we had plenty of moderators that seemed enthusiastic and plans to promote someone in the very near future. Almost a year later, that person has not been promoted and multiple moderators have left. And full disclosure for everyone here, I did offer to come back to the staff to help with the GMod duties and help train and promote moderators...but was refused. I honestly want what's best for VT, and I'm not surprised that has finally caught up to where we are right now.
For my own comfort and ease of access, invisibility is the best thing for me. I am happy to compromise in other ways, but I wouldn't be able to do my job effectively if I weren't invisible - anxiety would prevent me from doing as much as I'm doing now. This is my own issue to work on and I'm doing so on my own time in my own private life, but ultimately I need to prioritize myself before VT. This is one concession I will not make at this time. This goes to DerBear too.

From your post and others, I'm willing to step in and help more with basic moderation and involve myself in the community again. The latter is hard for me, but I think it'd be a good first step - for me, anyway - towards better accessibility and visibility, especially since not being invisible is not an option for me right now.

I know I'm not as good at this job as you were, but I am checking accounts. Maybe not as actively as you were; I've had lower than usual morale the past couple of months - life's been hard. You're right though, I should really renew my efforts again. I can't speak to moderators actively checking their sections. I'm confident that they're doing their job, but when I don't have the time to actively check sections too (which, yes, I'll commit myself to improving), it's hard to tell sometimes.

I thought promotion would happen sooner, too... I don't think anybody anticipated us being in the situation we're in now. I didn't know you offered to return to staff, though. I'm sorry.

One thing I saw in a prior forum, is that when you reported something, the staff would send you a message concerning it. If the staff dealt with the reported problem, they would send a small message to the reporter saying the problem has been dealt with. If the mod finds the report lacking, then they may PM the reporter, telling them why the they didn't carry out the report, and possibly ask for more evidence. You might want to look into having this as standard modding procedure. It only takes a minute to do, and it goes to show the regular folks that their reports actually matter.
It's worth discussing. I worry that it might be a little excessive, but we'll see what the staff thinks. It'd certainly be useful.

My suggestion also is to have more regular staff replacements. We've needed new mods for months now, yet nothing has been done. Perhaps VT should have tri-yearly mod applications. instead of frantically searching for new mods after the old ones start leaving, you can just pick the best guy from the last application. Would make mod transitions easier and faster, preventing situations like this from happening.
Having regular mod applications is an idea too. But you're right (and I think she'd be okay with me saying this), Val and I waited too long and we're sorry. That was our mistake.

DerBear
June 10th, 2017, 11:11 AM
For my own comfort and ease of access, invisibility is the best thing for me. I am happy to compromise in other ways, but I wouldn't be able to do my job effectively if I weren't invisible - anxiety would prevent me from doing as much as I'm doing now. This is my own issue to work on and I'm doing so on my own time in my own private life, but ultimately I need to prioritize myself before VT. This is one concession I will not make at this time. This goes to DerBear too..

I understand that I hope I didn't sound disrespectful when I made the comment about being invisible it wasn't directed to anyone in particular. It was just an observation from my own experience on staff and what I've witnessed. Of course everyone is entitled to feel comfortable on this site and everyone should take whatever steps they need to in order to feel comfortable on here.

PlasmaHam
June 10th, 2017, 01:08 PM
Elysium, thank you for answering my questions. I feel like I have gained a greater understanding and grasp of the situation here due to your testimony. I hope you can work with the the rest of the staff to better solve these problems effectively. If you require any assistance to help VT, I would be glad to lend my hand, even in a non-staff manner.

Endeavour
June 10th, 2017, 01:11 PM
I've already responded in the other thread here. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3530427&postcount=28)

I know I'm invisible and I know I don't post that much outside from moderating, but all the staff do take reports seriously. I've looked through this thread and there are some good ideas and things I certainly agree with. I particularly like the idea about PMing people when we need more information, we have done this in the past but I agree that this needs to be more of a regular thing.

We have lost five staff members (if my memory serves me correctly) since I joined staff in October and that, to an extent, means more of our time has to be dedicated to the "behind the scenes" stuff rather than actually being out there and posting in the forums.

Periphery
June 10th, 2017, 01:19 PM
For same behavior - if you could link me to specific posts, that'd be great. I usually skim latest posts due to time constraints, but that's not always indicative of much. Location is generally treated as circumstantial (there are exceptions of course), and the same signature... I recall them not being the same, or having seen something to the contrary, but I really don't remember. If you'd like to PM me with the information again I'll take another look into it.


I think I'm just beating other people to responding :P But yeah, of course. This is my job and I want to improve.

To be fair, a lot of basic moderation isn't obvious - a large part of our jobs involves moderating profiles, after all. We, the senior staff, are aware of inactivity if/when it happens and we address it and try to work with people. We don't just leave it there indefinitely, but we don't like having to let anyone go because of it.

If someone keeps reporting the same thing because they're not seeing any resolution to it but we have a reason for not taking action, we'll usually ultimately PM them and explain. If that didn't happen in your case, I'm sorry, and we can make it a clearer part of our protocol. We get a lot of reports though, I'm not sure how easy it would be to respond to everything that doesn't get handled.

As for new staff apps - well, better late then never, right?

With regards to activity - I know I keep myself invisible for my own comfort, but as I mentioned (possibly in the last thread or my last reply here? I lost track), it's been suggested to me that I participate more as just another user and not in my capacity as a staff member. Would that help?

I sent about 10 reports for that account now and still no PM, I think you may understand why I feel like I'm being completely ignored here. As Emerald Dream said, I too feel like the staff just wait for reports and then deal with them, rather than trying to avoid the reports from happening. It's a bit sad that the staff seem to rely on normal members to find fake accounts, while I would think the staff have the most experience with these accounts and should be able to find them more easily than us.

What PlasmaHam said is a good idea, make people aware of the fact their reports are being dealt with. It's important. If we have no proof of us getting helped, we will easily assume we are being ignored. Feeling like the staff, who we should look up to just ignore us makes people lose the respect for the staff.

I would still like to see what the other staff members have to say on this issue. They are involved too. All of the staff is really. There is a large difference in activity between staff members. Yes I get that some mods are able to come on more than others, but when 1 person does the work of 3 people, something is wrong. Staff members can't mod on a daily basis, I get that. If you're unable to I completely understand that. You are all people with lives too. Where the problem lies though is if you are able to post quite often, but somehow unable to moderate. I just feel like there is a problem with motivation here. I may be wrong on that, but that's the impression I get.

Endeavour What I feel like is when a few staff members left, new ones should have been recruited, or atleast there should've been applications. I get that you can't just open applications all the time but the current situation could've been avoided.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 01:41 PM
Elysium, thank you for answering my questions. I feel like I have gained a greater understanding and grasp of the situation here due to your testimony. I hope you can work with the the rest of the staff to better solve these problems effectively. If you require any assistance to help VT, I would be glad to lend my hand, even in a non-staff manner.
Of course, and I hope so too. Thank you for your dedication and concern; it really does help. Sometimes a little push can be all you need.

I sent about 10 reports for that account now and still no PM, I think you may understand why I feel like I'm being completely ignored here. As Emerald Dream said, I too feel like the staff just wait for reports and then deal with them, rather than trying to avoid the reports from happening. It's a bit sad that the staff seem to rely on normal members to find fake accounts, while I would think the staff have the most experience with these accounts and should be able to find them more easily than us.
I asked about it; you were PMed, though not by me. At any rate, I've made it a point to look into the matter again and I'm starting to feel like this is going in circles. This discussion about how well or poorly I'm doing my job has ceased to be constructive. Criticize me all you want, but I think I've said my piece and more or less owned up to my shortcomings.

What PlasmaHam said is a good idea, make people aware of the fact their reports are being dealt with. It's important. If we have no proof of us getting helped, we will easily assume we are being ignored. Feeling like the staff, who we should look up to just ignore us makes people lose the respect for the staff.
Noted, and under discussion.

I would still like to see what the other staff members have to say on this issue. They are involved too. All of the staff is really. There is a large difference in activity between staff members. Yes I get that some mods are able to come on more than others, but when 1 person does the work of 3 people, something is wrong. Staff members can't mod on a daily basis, I get that. If you're unable to I completely understand that. You are all people with lives too. Where the problem lies though is if you are able to post quite often, but somehow unable to moderate. I just feel like there is a problem with motivation here. I may be wrong on that, but that's the impression I get.
Endeavour What I feel like is when a few staff members left, new ones should have been recruited, or atleast there should've been applications. I get that you can't just open applications all the time but the current situation could've been avoided.
We do have some staff members in different timezones and working, so I'm sure they'll get to it eventually. We monitor moderator activity as best as we are currently able and, like I've said before, handle inactivity if/when it comes up. Those kinds of things don't often escape our notice. There may be some issues with motivation - I've admitted to it myself - but, like I told Plasma above, sometimes a push is all you need. Just keep in mind that the majority of the moderation we do isn't apparent to you. Whether it's enough moderation is a different issue, but it's hard to discuss whether moderation is actually happening at all when it's not public.

We don't always do applications when we look to hire new staff, mind you. Sometimes we do them just to get an idea of interest and who's still around. I'll leave the rest of that conversation to Endeavour if he wishes to continue it, but I've already apologized for me and Val waiting too long.

Living For Love
June 10th, 2017, 01:45 PM
I'll speak for me, I'm never invisible and I always answer to every PM, just a few days ago a user messaged me about something that was bothering them and we both worked it out pretty fast. I don't mean to sound pretentious, by I'm very easily accessible.

I perfectly understand what Emerald Dream said about being reactive and proactive, and I agree with it entirely. I must admit that lately I've been getting less and less proactive without actively checking my sections. I generally only check actively my sections if we're not getting enough reports, but I promise I'll change that. Nevertheless, I still don't think Puberty 101 is constantly full with inappropriate threads because we take care of it, it might take a while, but we'll always end up locking inappropriate threads.

I sent about 10 reports for that account now and still no PM, I think you may understand why I feel like I'm being completely ignored here. As Emerald Dream said, I too feel like the staff just wait for reports and then deal with them, rather than trying to avoid the reports from happening. It's a bit sad that the staff seem to rely on normal members to find fake accounts, while I would think the staff have the most experience with these accounts and should be able to find them more easily than us.
Now you're just being rude, I'll admit we are a bit understaffed right now, but we do our job, so don't question our ability to effectively moderate VT because that's not what's happening here. The work that's being done is good work, it's just not enough because we are understaffed. Also, we do rely on members to find fake accounts and pedophiles, do you realise that, if someone sends you a PM asking to engage in sexual activities through a webcam and you choose to remain silent by not reporting, you are indirectly condoning it? You claim there are lots of pedophiles, yet I don't see lots of people reporting it. Admins can't keep checking everyone's PMs, so that's where you guys should come forward as well if you witness anything that goes against the rules.

Periphery
June 10th, 2017, 01:49 PM
I asked about it; you were PMed, though not by me. At any rate, I've made it a point to look into the matter again and I'm starting to feel like this is going in circles. This discussion about how well or poorly I'm doing my job has ceased to be constructive. Criticize me all you want, but I think I've said my piece and more or less owned up to my shortcomings.



I am not asking for you admit to shortcomings, I am asking for solutions. I got a PM yes, one asking why I found the account suspicious, that wasn't after the first report though, it was after a bunch. This dicussion is not about you as a person, but about the staff as a whole. I haven't focused this on you alone so please don't make it look like I have been doing so.
Living For Love

It's something that I experience personally, I feel like that is what is happening. I am not saying it's true. If I were to get PM's like that I would report them, but frankly I am not getting them. It's not because they aren't being reported that they aren't there though. I do have to admit that in puberty for boys the main problem lies with the explicit content, and not the fake accounts. The real problem is puberty for girls. As I said before, some people feel like they will be ignored anyway, and are afraid to report or PM the staff because of that. This is not a personal attack towards individual staff members, and I am sorry if it seems like that because I don't want this to turn into a fight, I want this to stay mature and calm, so I'm sorry if I gave you all the wrong impression in my posts.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 01:56 PM
I am not asking for you admit to shortcomings, I am asking for solutions. I got a PM yes, one asking why I found the account suspicious, that wasn't after the first report though, it was after a bunch. This dicussion is not about you as a person, but about the staff as a whole. I haven't focused this on you alone so please don't make it look like I have been doing so.
I didn't mean to zero in on you, sorry. It's just when I've made it clear that this particular responsibility has fallen solely to me, it's easy for me to feel like I'm the only one being criticized. As noted, we're discussing the benefits and possibilities of being more obviously involved with reported posts, but you were PMed, so please don't say you weren't. Perhaps it wasn't soon enough, but I'll file that as "under discussion."

So here's where we stand with constructive change:

More public presence in a non-staff capacity, most notably from invisible staff members
New moderators
More "basic moderation" on the part of the senior staff
Potentially PMing to acknowledge reported posts
Taking another look at your specific report
Taking another look at moderator (in)activity and reevaluating


Have I missed anything? Any disagreements or further suggestions? These are all discussion, by the way, not guarantees yet (outside of that which applies to how I personally conduct myself and my work, anyway).

PlasmaHam
June 10th, 2017, 03:58 PM
My biggest problem with the current system, is how vague and hidden most of the "behind the scenes" work is. The staff would make a small "we're working on it" or a "we'll think about it" when someone makes a suggestion, and then you hear absolutely nothing else about it. Y'all almost never give follow ups, and it makes you look like promise breakers when you promise to look into something or promise to work on something, only for months to go by with absolutely no word about it. This gives the impression that y'all don't follow up on anything, which makes people lose confidence in your work.

Why then, should I believe your word that the staff will discuss this issue, when the last 50 times the staff has "discussed an issue" we never got a follow-up to it? Will this just get silently swept into the corner like most other issues? People here want to see results, not seemingly empty promises of discussion.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 04:08 PM
My biggest problem with the current system, is how vague and hidden most of the "behind the scenes" work is. The staff would make a small "we're working on it" or a "we'll think about it" when someone makes a suggestion, and then you hear absolutely nothing else about it. Y'all almost never give follow ups, and it makes you look like promise breakers when you promise to look into something or promise to work on something, only for months to go by with absolutely no word about it. This gives the impression that y'all don't follow up on anything, which makes people lose confidence in your work.

Why then, should I believe your word that the staff will discuss this issue, when the last 50 times the staff has "discussed an issue" we never got a follow-up to it? Will this just get silently swept into the corner like most other issues? People here want to see results, not seemingly empty promises of discussion.
Well, when was the last time we promised we'd discuss something and didn't get back to you? The Religion & Philosophy forum? I'll give you an update if you want. Some things - bigger changes - require more work than just a matter of opinion. It's also hard to give certain follow ups without giving away more information than you need to have, but I'll certainly try.

I'm also very strict that everyone pitch in before making any changes and that we're all on board before anything happens, which extends discussions.

PlasmaHam
June 10th, 2017, 04:35 PM
Well, when was the last time we promised we'd discuss something and didn't get back to you? The Religion & Philosophy forum? I'll give you an update if you want. Some things - bigger changes - require more work than just a matter of opinion. It's also hard to give certain follow ups without giving away more information than you need to have, but I'll certainly try.

I'm also very strict that everyone pitch in before making any changes and that we're all on board before anything happens, which extends discussions.
Perhaps I need to rephrase my concerns. Right now, because the staff is so secretive and slow, it gives the impression that they don't do anything. The "behind the scenes" defense has become so common to the point of parody.

I am just suggestin for the staff to regularly update the people on current projects. The VT staff should be transparent, and only updating us on a "need to know" basis is the exact opposite of that. You are a teen forum, not a world government after all. Perhaps a bi-weekly update, so people can see that the staff is actually working on stuff, instead of twiddling their thumbs.

Anyhow, I was mainly aiming this conversation towards the absent admin, since by your own admission you can't do anything about this by yourself.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 04:55 PM
Perhaps I need to rephrase my concerns. Right now, because the staff is so secretive and slow, it gives the impression that they don't do anything. The "behind the scenes" defense has become so common to the point of parody.

I am just suggestin for the staff to regularly update the people on current projects. The VT staff should be transparent, and only updating us on a "need to know" basis is the exact opposite of that. You are a teen forum, not a world government after all. Perhaps a bi-weekly update, so people can see that the staff is actually working on stuff, instead of twiddling their thumbs.

Anyhow, I was mainly aiming this conversation towards the absent admin, since by your own admission you can't do anything about this by yourself.
Unfortunately yeah, quite a bit is out of my hands in terms of actual progress or change. I can prompt and guide discussion and decisions, but actually implementing most anything is beyond my power.

Some sort of newsletter or update is also an idea, though. However the things to include that immediately come to mind for me would probably require an admin's help. Most often we're not actually working on things as a team - since power limitations and all and lack of suggestions or ideas for new or different things - we mainly just keep things running on a day to day basis, so updates from me would probably be along the lines of, "We're discussing this!" I can't get more specific than that because either progress hasn't been made beyond that point or the progress that needs to be made might be out of my power. I hope she doesn't mind me speaking for her, but Val is doing the best that she can. She's not as skilled as Mike, to my knowledge doesn't have as much access since she's not the site owner, and of course, as always, is dealing with her own life.

(The more I think about it, I kind of like the idea of a monthly newsletter or something. Notable threads, posts, that kinda thing. It'd be a lot of work, but might foster community and engagement...)

Amethyst Rose
June 10th, 2017, 07:05 PM
Elysium I think the best route to go for public updates on our progress is just posting in the thread where the idea originated so no one feels ignored/left in the dark. There's no point in making new threads or announcements just to say "we're working on it" and similar things. Posting updates in the original thread would also allow further discussion and input from other members, which I think is very important since most changes would affect us as a whole.

The newsletter is a great idea, and I'd be willing to help get it going if there ends up being enough support. But enough of that for now, I don't want to get off-topic.

PlasmaHam
June 10th, 2017, 08:46 PM
^^I second this. The best way to update the users on project progress would be to post in the thread where the idea originated. That would allow the users to most easily witness the progress, and chime in some suggestions. While I agree that a newsletter is a great idea, and something I would love to help with personally, that is a discussion for another thread.

Elysium
June 10th, 2017, 08:51 PM
I'll shelve the newsletter idea for now.

I'll also make it a point to try to remember to give updates... but I'm worried that it's going to become just a series of non-updates. Worth a shot, anyway.

Periphery
June 11th, 2017, 02:44 PM
I'll shelve the newsletter idea for now.

I'll also make it a point to try to remember to give updates... but I'm worried that it's going to become just a series of non-updates. Worth a shot, anyway.

We'd rather have a few small updates than not knowing what is actually going on at all. Keeping the members informed is always a good thing.

I would still like the opinions of both other staff members and maybe Val, since Mike isn't present at the moment. I feel like the opinions of the other staff members in this thread are important and can help out a lot honestly.

Elysium
June 11th, 2017, 03:21 PM
We'd rather have a few small updates than not knowing what is actually going on at all. Keeping the members informed is always a good thing.

I would still like the opinions of both other staff members and maybe Val, since Mike isn't present at the moment. I feel like the opinions of the other staff members in this thread are important and can help out a lot honestly.
I'll try to keep that in mind going forward.

I can nudge the greenies, but I'm not going to require them to post if they don't feel comfortable or don't have anything significant to add. This isn't their fault, after all. As for Val, she's been working more than usual the past couple of days, but she knows about this discussion and I'd imagine she'd want to respond when she gets some free time.

xXl0sth0peXx
June 12th, 2017, 01:11 PM
iím honestly not sure how to reply to this. This pains me, and hurts me in more ways than I will ever be able to articulate. And maybe thatís my fault. Maybe it isnít at the same time.

Iíll begin with addressing the first post. Hiring mods isnít as simple as ďeenie meanie minie mo, I choose youĒ. Itís a process, itís something we have to slowly discuss, look into, and discuss with individuals before you even see anything. So sometimes, mod apps may take upwards of a month, but itís because thereís a lot happening that you donít see until we bring the candidate(s) live. We canít announce them and then go on. Thereís training and other stuff that need to happen first.

This is nothing against Elysium at all. She does every single thing that she can with what she has. itís not a matter of wanting or not wanting someone to work with her, itís a matter of being staffed. And we did get smacked in the face with people quitting. If we arenít properly staffed, we canít promote without losing other areas of the site. And weíre working to come back from that, and weíre doing the best we can. Changes will be coming, i can promise you. But it canít and wonít happen overnight. The staff is my saving grace. Theyíve been around through thick and thin, and been there when not much is happening, and when everything is, and this site would not be here without them. Even when you donít think theyíre doing much, they are doing it. And I see it in the mod stats.

My activity probably isnít where it needs to be, thatís correct. Thereís a lot of reasons for that. And that mostly falls back onto me. To find time to be working on the behind the scenes stuff, my actual life, and beyond is difficult for me, and iím still learning time management. I picked up a full time job recently, and Iím working 55+ hour weeks every week, and it sort of fucked me in the face. Itís been a challenge and an adjustment and Iím working on trying to get back to where I was here. Behind the scenes is often taken as a well.. excuse? But i can promise you that thereís always a lot going on. Writing rules, redoing things, making edits, figuring this chat shit out, mods, discussions.. itís more than i think you know. The fact of the matter is until recently, I didnít have much ability to make decisions or do much. Waiting on others hindered a lot of what I could do, and now that thatís changed, Iím working as hard as I can to make these new things and changes happen. Iím only human though. I donít know everything, Iím not website based, and Iím literally learning as I go. Thereís no one here holding my hand showing me what to do or anything. Itís all trial and error, which also takes up time. Is that a bad thing? I donít know. Iím also so fucked up right now. My life is spirling around, and sometimes, I need to be away for a bit. Iím working on things. Iím talking and trying to improve myself, but diagnoses arenít helping right now and Iím trying to dig myself out of the rut.

I think a lot. Too much sometimes. And a lot of times, my thoughts are irrational, or in reverse of what they actually should be. I feel like a lot of members are scared of staff members, especially admins. And they donít want to connect or be friends with them. And that reality might be true, or it might not. I donít know. But thatís fucked with me a lot too. I should post more, and publicly, mark my word, Iím going to try to be more active outside of staff threads.

I take feedback. i want feedback. Without it, I canít improve. i will take myself off of invisible. Itís more of a convenience factor for me, but I have no issues doings. We can also look into how we deal with reports further, I do agree that thereís a potentially better option, but again, thatís something that would have to be researched and looked into. Sometimes, reports take a couple of days, or beyond. It sucks, but sometimes, if thereís a lot of information, it does. Iíll do my best to help reduce that, but sometimes, it isnít obtainable.

To the comment about staff members who donít moderate at all, thereís some moderation that you donít see, but to your point, you donít know what we see, what we discuss, and what we come up with. We do mod stats monthly, we look at these things, and we talk to these people and do what we need to with them, but itís personal. But weíre aware of these things.

I donít want VT to turn into govteen. I love VT with my entire heart. I wouldnít be here if I didnít. But i want to do whatís right. And I donít always know that, and thatís where feedback comes in. Constructive feedback though.

The truth is, a lot of people donít want to be mods. I hoped weíd get more apps when we opened them. We didnít, and thatís unfortunate. How do we fix that? I donít know. I donít have all the answers. We are going to revamp the staff, we have a few people hopefully coming on this month, and that will fix things. Maybe weíre doing it wrong, maybe we need running apps. We as staff are always looking, and sometimes hire outside of apps, but maybe we need to just have open submissions or something. i donít know. We should have opened them sooner though, thatís correct. And thatís my fault for not growing the balls and stepping up.

ďbehind the scenesĒ is very vague, yes. But thereís a whole process that goes on. We have to discuss it as an entire staff, no one left behind. We have to weigh pros and cons and see whatís the best. We have to write information for it, come up with regulations, sometimes, we have to test it.. itís more than you might think. Does the process take too long sometimes? Yeah, I guess so. And again, thatís my fault. But we also canít disclose information before we are fully ready with something, and thatís hard. For me, researching chat also means me learning a little bit of a coding language that I have no earthly clue about, but itís for the best of the site. Iíve played around a lot and itís paying off, but Iíd rather work hard, and get something right when we launch it rather than launch it and then be fucked later. So I might not be directly doing VT work, but iím doing work that regards to working on VT.

A newsletter or something might not be a bad idea. To get it up and running will be a task in and of its own, but I think itís something we might be able to work with. It gets a bit touchy because we canít announce some things, and we canít even announce that weíre discussing some things because that defeats the purpose of moderator/staff discussions, but when thereís a will, thereís a way and Iíll start looking into this.

I guess what Iím saying here is iím sorry. iím sorry i havenít been a good admin. Itís been a lot of trial and error for myself, and itís been so hard to learn and go, and to push myself with everything else going on. itís my fault for not dealing with myself sooner, for not realizing that everything was this bad. Iíve been doing my best. i know itís not good enough, and iím sorry for that. Iím publicly saying this, so mark my word that Iím going to do my very best to make this summer a summer of change for VT, and to see it that things happen. Iím sorry that they havenít, and Iím sorry that weíve gotten to a place that everyone feels this way. We just need to know. Thereís no way to know, and in this case, we donít until things boil over. So push me. Hold me accountable. Talk shit about me. Do what you need to do. But I'm going to try and do better.

I fucked up, and thereís nothing more that I can say, but Iíll try to do better.

Just JT
June 17th, 2017, 05:03 PM
I have been reading this thread and I wasn't sure how to post or what to say till you mentioned Govteen. And I'm glad you did. Im seeing a lot of similarities here in this thread and what began the end over there. And that was sad in the end, it was a good place, at one time.

I was pretty close with some mods there and I agree there's a lot behind the scenes staff can't discuss. In reality, comes down to privacy issues, and yeah there are laws about that even for a forum like VT.

I think sometimes we take staff for granted, we assume they have all there powers, but really don't. And if the ones with the powers aren't around, then that's a problem. A lot like what happened at Gov.

I think a lota the police nuts are valid, but as a user, I just need to take a back seat and be a user. And let staff do their job, and report as I see fit. Is that kind passive? Yeah, but that's what is expected.

It's really to bad so many staff bailed recently. I don't know why, probably inappropriate to ask and talk about here, but just saying my 2 cents, if it's anything like that other forum, we already know the reason. And there's really no way to fix it unless the powers to be participate and do their share on staff

Hope I didn't offend anyone, just speaking my mind. I know I want this place areound. May even for if I ever have my own kids (yeah right lol!!!).
But seriously, it's a good place for a lot of people, we just need to keep it safe. We do that by allowing staff to do their job, whether we know what that is or not.

Lucy G
June 20th, 2017, 08:09 AM
i’m honestly not sure how to reply to this. This pains me, and hurts me in more ways than I will ever be able to articulate. And maybe that’s my fault. Maybe it isn’t at the same time.

I’ll begin with addressing the first post. Hiring mods isn’t as simple as “eenie meanie minie mo, I choose you”. It’s a process, it’s something we have to slowly discuss, look into, and discuss with individuals before you even see anything. So sometimes, mod apps may take upwards of a month, but it’s because there’s a lot happening that you don’t see until we bring the candidate(s) live. We can’t announce them and then go on. There’s training and other stuff that need to happen first.

This is nothing against Elysium at all. She does every single thing that she can with what she has. it’s not a matter of wanting or not wanting someone to work with her, it’s a matter of being staffed. And we did get smacked in the face with people quitting. If we aren’t properly staffed, we can’t promote without losing other areas of the site. And we’re working to come back from that, and we’re doing the best we can. Changes will be coming, i can promise you. But it can’t and won’t happen overnight. The staff is my saving grace. They’ve been around through thick and thin, and been there when not much is happening, and when everything is, and this site would not be here without them. Even when you don’t think they’re doing much, they are doing it. And I see it in the mod stats.

My activity probably isn’t where it needs to be, that’s correct. There’s a lot of reasons for that. And that mostly falls back onto me. To find time to be working on the behind the scenes stuff, my actual life, and beyond is difficult for me, and i’m still learning time management. I picked up a full time job recently, and I’m working 55+ hour weeks every week, and it sort of fucked me in the face. It’s been a challenge and an adjustment and I’m working on trying to get back to where I was here. Behind the scenes is often taken as a well.. excuse? But i can promise you that there’s always a lot going on. Writing rules, redoing things, making edits, figuring this chat shit out, mods, discussions.. it’s more than i think you know. The fact of the matter is until recently, I didn’t have much ability to make decisions or do much. Waiting on others hindered a lot of what I could do, and now that that’s changed, I’m working as hard as I can to make these new things and changes happen. I’m only human though. I don’t know everything, I’m not website based, and I’m literally learning as I go. There’s no one here holding my hand showing me what to do or anything. It’s all trial and error, which also takes up time. Is that a bad thing? I don’t know. I’m also so fucked up right now. My life is spirling around, and sometimes, I need to be away for a bit. I’m working on things. I’m talking and trying to improve myself, but diagnoses aren’t helping right now and I’m trying to dig myself out of the rut.

I think a lot. Too much sometimes. And a lot of times, my thoughts are irrational, or in reverse of what they actually should be. I feel like a lot of members are scared of staff members, especially admins. And they don’t want to connect or be friends with them. And that reality might be true, or it might not. I don’t know. But that’s fucked with me a lot too. I should post more, and publicly, mark my word, I’m going to try to be more active outside of staff threads.

I take feedback. i want feedback. Without it, I can’t improve. i will take myself off of invisible. It’s more of a convenience factor for me, but I have no issues doings. We can also look into how we deal with reports further, I do agree that there’s a potentially better option, but again, that’s something that would have to be researched and looked into. Sometimes, reports take a couple of days, or beyond. It sucks, but sometimes, if there’s a lot of information, it does. I’ll do my best to help reduce that, but sometimes, it isn’t obtainable.

To the comment about staff members who don’t moderate at all, there’s some moderation that you don’t see, but to your point, you don’t know what we see, what we discuss, and what we come up with. We do mod stats monthly, we look at these things, and we talk to these people and do what we need to with them, but it’s personal. But we’re aware of these things.

I don’t want VT to turn into govteen. I love VT with my entire heart. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t. But i want to do what’s right. And I don’t always know that, and that’s where feedback comes in. Constructive feedback though.

The truth is, a lot of people don’t want to be mods. I hoped we’d get more apps when we opened them. We didn’t, and that’s unfortunate. How do we fix that? I don’t know. I don’t have all the answers. We are going to revamp the staff, we have a few people hopefully coming on this month, and that will fix things. Maybe we’re doing it wrong, maybe we need running apps. We as staff are always looking, and sometimes hire outside of apps, but maybe we need to just have open submissions or something. i don’t know. We should have opened them sooner though, that’s correct. And that’s my fault for not growing the balls and stepping up.

“behind the scenes” is very vague, yes. But there’s a whole process that goes on. We have to discuss it as an entire staff, no one left behind. We have to weigh pros and cons and see what’s the best. We have to write information for it, come up with regulations, sometimes, we have to test it.. it’s more than you might think. Does the process take too long sometimes? Yeah, I guess so. And again, that’s my fault. But we also can’t disclose information before we are fully ready with something, and that’s hard. For me, researching chat also means me learning a little bit of a coding language that I have no earthly clue about, but it’s for the best of the site. I’ve played around a lot and it’s paying off, but I’d rather work hard, and get something right when we launch it rather than launch it and then be fucked later. So I might not be directly doing VT work, but i’m doing work that regards to working on VT.

A newsletter or something might not be a bad idea. To get it up and running will be a task in and of its own, but I think it’s something we might be able to work with. It gets a bit touchy because we can’t announce some things, and we can’t even announce that we’re discussing some things because that defeats the purpose of moderator/staff discussions, but when there’s a will, there’s a way and I’ll start looking into this.

I guess what I’m saying here is i’m sorry. i’m sorry i haven’t been a good admin. It’s been a lot of trial and error for myself, and it’s been so hard to learn and go, and to push myself with everything else going on. it’s my fault for not dealing with myself sooner, for not realizing that everything was this bad. I’ve been doing my best. i know it’s not good enough, and i’m sorry for that. I’m publicly saying this, so mark my word that I’m going to do my very best to make this summer a summer of change for VT, and to see it that things happen. I’m sorry that they haven’t, and I’m sorry that we’ve gotten to a place that everyone feels this way. We just need to know. There’s no way to know, and in this case, we don’t until things boil over. So push me. Hold me accountable. Talk shit about me. Do what you need to do. But I'm going to try and do better.

I fucked up, and there’s nothing more that I can say, but I’ll try to do better.


As a relative newcomer here I read this and was almost brought to tears. I came here, probably like you, for help and guidance and although my posts are pretty tame I feel that I'm getting more used to the site and how it works (not having been on a forum before). I am hopelessly shy and don't normally say or type much but I wondered if anyone else whose not an admin or a mod actually knew how much time it takes to set up a thing like VT.

I have no idea but it's ob v hard work and someone has to do it to the best of their ability. I presume it's all voluntary?

So to Lost Hope - if this makes you feel a bit better - thank you for taking on the Admin side of things and giving teens like me the opportunity to meet people in similar situations. I've no idea what govteen is but it seems like its crashed or stopped - and I hope this site will continue so that many people can find the help an support they need.

Thank you,
Lucy x

Barbara.
June 20th, 2017, 05:31 PM
As a relative newcomer here I read this and was almost brought to tears. I came here, probably like you, for help and guidance and although my posts are pretty tame I feel that I'm getting more used to the site and how it works (not having been on a forum before). I am hopelessly shy and don't normally say or type much but I wondered if anyone else whose not an admin or a mod actually knew how much time it takes to set up a thing like VT.

I have no idea but it's ob v hard work and someone has to do it to the best of their ability. I presume it's all voluntary?

So to Lost Hope - if this makes you feel a bit better - thank you for taking on the Admin side of things and giving teens like me the opportunity to meet people in similar situations. I've no idea what govteen is but it seems like its crashed or stopped - and I hope this site will continue so that many people can find the help an support they need.

Thank you,
Lucy x
Thank you Lucy as you expressed everything that I fumble and look for the words to say. Thank you Administration and every person involved .

Plane And Simple
June 21st, 2017, 03:25 PM
As a relative newcomer here I read this and was almost brought to tears. I came here, probably like you, for help and guidance and although my posts are pretty tame I feel that I'm getting more used to the site and how it works (not having been on a forum before). I am hopelessly shy and don't normally say or type much but I wondered if anyone else whose not an admin or a mod actually knew how much time it takes to set up a thing like VT.

I have no idea but it's ob v hard work and someone has to do it to the best of their ability. I presume it's all voluntary?

So to Lost Hope - if this makes you feel a bit better - thank you for taking on the Admin side of things and giving teens like me the opportunity to meet people in similar situations. I've no idea what govteen is but it seems like its crashed or stopped - and I hope this site will continue so that many people can find the help an support they need.

Thank you,
Lucy x

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for putting into words what some of us can not

Lucy G
June 23rd, 2017, 08:27 AM
I just posted what i thought that's all