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View Full Version : Transgender girl, am I welcome here?


Bunnyprincess
January 27th, 2017, 08:18 AM
Hi, as in the title, I am a transgender girl. In the main page it says this subforum is for "biological girls only", what does that refer to? I am currently on hormones, going through female puberty and my birth certificate is female so is it okay for me to participate here?

Taryn98
January 27th, 2017, 08:41 AM
The forum rules say that you can post in the section based on your sex assigned at birth. If you have a question about it, I would recommend you contact a moderator directly.

Endeavour
January 27th, 2017, 11:55 AM
Puberty for Girls :arrow: Virtual Teen HQ

Since this is more a question about site rules than puberty, this thread fits better over here. What is said above is correct. The rules do say you should only post in the forum that fits your biological sex given at birth. You're more than welcome to post in Puberty for All though, and if you have any questions about transitioning etc. you are welcome to post them in Teen Sexuality and Gender.

Bunnyprincess
January 27th, 2017, 02:53 PM
That's sad. I hope the mods can consider changing the rules as I find this quote offensive.

Elysium
January 27th, 2017, 04:05 PM
That's sad. I hope the mods can consider changing the rules as I find this quote offensive.
Our logic in categorizing the sections was that a transgender girl wouldn't be going through typical female puberty and a transgender boy wouldn't be going through typical male puberty, so it wouldn't make sense to allow anyone to post in a section they couldn't meaningfully contribute to.

However, your perspective and input are valuable, especially as we don't have anyone on staff currently who identifies as transgender (to my knowledge); what would you suggest?

Desuetude
January 27th, 2017, 04:44 PM
I get why you're catagorising due to sex but it wouldn't hurt to let trans people post in whichever section they feel most comfortable. It depends on the context of the thread. If a trans girl has questions about boobs you can't expect them to post that in the boys section. I'd consider re-evaluating that rule.

Elysium
January 27th, 2017, 09:30 PM
I get why you're catagorising due to sex but it wouldn't hurt to let trans people post in whichever section they feel most comfortable. It depends on the context of the thread. If a trans girl has questions about boobs you can't expect them to post that in the boys section. I'd consider re-evaluating that rule.
To be fair, that's part of the reason for the Puberty for All section. Regardless though, I see your point. I'll bring it up with the rest of staff. Thank you for your input and please let me know if there's anything else we can do.

Desuetude
January 28th, 2017, 09:59 AM
To be fair, that's part of the reason for the Puberty for All section. Regardless though, I see your point. I'll bring it up with the rest of staff. Thank you for your input and please let me know if there's anything else we can do.
Yeah there's puberty for all, fair enough but the OP is a girl and shouldn't need to feel like her identity is being questioned by being unable to post in said section. You wouldn't have even known she was trans if she hadn't posted this so again, it really isn't hurting anyone. Appreciate your consideration.

Just JT
January 29th, 2017, 09:25 AM
Wow!!
This is really good, a truly quality topic that's real to life but also seems to conflict with forum rules, and people can talk about it civily and make good quality (potential) changes here. Hats off to you guys

Bunnyprincess
January 30th, 2017, 12:59 PM
Our logic in categorizing the sections was that a transgender girl wouldn't be going through typical female puberty and a transgender boy wouldn't be going through typical male puberty, so it wouldn't make sense to allow anyone to post in a section they couldn't meaningfully contribute to.

However, your perspective and input are valuable, especially as we don't have anyone on staff currently who identifies as transgender (to my knowledge); what would you suggest?

Hmm, I'd suggest allowing transgender people to post in the sections that correspond with their gender, but still not allow boys to post in the girl section or vice versa. Maybe if you need there could be a rule that transgender people be on hormones to post in the gendered sections, so they are going through the respective puberty?

Periphery
January 30th, 2017, 01:06 PM
Hmm, I'd suggest allowing transgender people to post in the sections that correspond with their gender, but still not allow boys to post in the girl section or vice versa. Maybe if you need there could be a rule that transgender people be on hormones to post in the gendered sections, so they are going through the respective puberty?

While in theory it's a good idea, and I think it should be possible, there's one big problem.

How do we know after allowing this there won't be a lot of people claiming to be both transgender and on hormones just for the purpose of posting in the puberty forum of the other gender? It's no secret there are a lot of fake acounts posting in P101 so I feel like this rule, while being a good idea, would increase this problem.

I do agree with you that it should be possible, because to me it's also a matter of respect. I think it's a shame this may potentially increase the amount of of creeps though, it really makes me sad.

Elysium
January 30th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Hmm, I'd suggest allowing transgender people to post in the sections that correspond with their gender, but still not allow boys to post in the girl section or vice versa. Maybe if you need there could be a rule that transgender people be on hormones to post in the gendered sections, so they are going through the respective puberty?

While in theory it's a good idea, and I think it should be possible, there's one big problem.

How do we know after allowing this there won't be a lot of people claiming to be both transgender and on hormones just for the purpose of posting in the puberty forum of the other gender? It's no secret there are a lot of fake acounts posting in P101 so I feel like this rule, while being a good idea, would increase this problem.

I do agree with you that it should be possible, because to me it's also a matter of respect. I think it's a shame this may potentially increase the amount of of creeps though, it really makes me sad.
I'll respond to both of these:

I was inclined to do what you're suggesting, Bunnyprincess. My hesitation is not for the reason The Special One gives, although that is valid (I dismissed it as not a primary concern because if people want to lie about their sex/gender to post in the incorrect forum, they're already doing that anyway, regardless of our rule about trans people). My concern was that it would be horribly intrusive of us, as staff, to personally verify with people whether or not they're on hormones and, subsequently, whether or not they're eligible to post in the section that corresponds to their gender but not their sex. It also seems exclusionary - a girl is no less a girl because she isn't on hormones and a boy is no less a boy because he isn't on hormones.

But I might be treating the matter with a little excess sensitivity. What are your thoughts? Desuetude Bunnyprincess and anyone else who would like to participate in this discussion.

Desuetude
January 31st, 2017, 01:23 PM
Completely agree with you, Elysium. I wouldn't feel happy with having to disclose such personal information just to post in a section of a forum, it'd be like having to prove yourself. Plus like you say, gender isn't determined by hormones anyway so that makes it void. This is a teen forum, most people here are under 18 and in the UK it's extremely rare that they'll prescribe hormones to anyone under 18 anyway (although I know they do early on in the US).

Can someone please explain to me what's so harmful about someone posting in the section they identify with though? It doesn't seem like it makes any difference to me. If you think about it I doubt most trans people will be posting in the P101 forums anyway (the OP seems like a one off) because it's so dysphoria inducing and difficult to navigate, as you can tell by this discussion.

Babs
February 1st, 2017, 10:48 PM
If a transgender girl were to post in Puberty For Girls about erections, I would think that would defeat the purpose of separate forums altogether.
It really isn't about being a boy or a girl, or politics, it's just about biology.

Elysium
February 1st, 2017, 11:20 PM
If a transgender girl were to post in Puberty For Girls about erections, I would think that would defeat the purpose of separate forums altogether.
It really isn't about being a boy or a girl, or politics, it's just about biology.
But why would they? I'm not trans, but my guess would be that the last thing trans people want to advertise is their genitals.

Babs
February 1st, 2017, 11:32 PM
But why would they? I'm not trans, but my guess would be that the last thing trans people want to advertise is their genitals.

They still get erections like anyone else, surely they have questions too. Maybe it's not even a big deal to them. Not all people think the same or have the same insecurities.

Elysium
February 2nd, 2017, 07:58 AM
They still get erections like anyone else, surely they have questions too. Maybe it's not even a big deal to them. Not all people think the same or have the same insecurities.
If that was the case, they could post in Puberty for All, no?

Desuetude
February 2nd, 2017, 08:57 AM
If a transgender girl were to post in Puberty For Girls about erections, I would think that would defeat the purpose of separate forums altogether.
It really isn't about being a boy or a girl, or politics, it's just about biology.
Haha trans people don't have less brain cells than you. Of course they're not going to post about their biology that isn't related to the forum they're posting in. It's not rocket science. Just let them post in the section they want to. Said a trans girl wants to ask a question about erections on a forum like this (which I doubt she would) she would almost certainly know to post in puberty for all.

To answer your 'not all people have the same insecurities' statement. Gender dysphoria makes it 99% likely that trans people won't be talking about stuff like that. Especially on a forum that is vastly cis.

Babs
February 2nd, 2017, 09:50 PM
Haha trans people don't have less brain cells than you. Of course they're not going to post about their biology that isn't related to the forum they're posting in. It's not rocket science. Just let them post in the section they want to. Said a trans girl wants to ask a question about erections on a forum like this (which I doubt she would) she would almost certainly know to post in puberty for all.

To answer your 'not all people have the same insecurities' statement. Gender dysphoria makes it 99% likely that trans people won't be talking about stuff like that. Especially on a forum that is vastly cis.

whoa there. I was just expressing a thought, no need to get defensive.

Anniebanannie
February 4th, 2017, 02:38 PM
How about letting people post in the gender they identify with, and see if there are any problems.

Bunnyprincess
February 7th, 2017, 07:24 PM
While in theory it's a good idea, and I think it should be possible, there's one big problem.

How do we know after allowing this there won't be a lot of people claiming to be both transgender and on hormones just for the purpose of posting in the puberty forum of the other gender? It's no secret there are a lot of fake acounts posting in P101 so I feel like this rule, while being a good idea, would increase this problem.

I do agree with you that it should be possible, because to me it's also a matter of respect. I think it's a shame this may potentially increase the amount of of creeps though, it really makes me sad.

I'll respond to both of these:

I was inclined to do what you're suggesting, Bunnyprincess. My hesitation is not for the reason The Special One gives, although that is valid (I dismissed it as not a primary concern because if people want to lie about their sex/gender to post in the incorrect forum, they're already doing that anyway, regardless of our rule about trans people). My concern was that it would be horribly intrusive of us, as staff, to personally verify with people whether or not they're on hormones and, subsequently, whether or not they're eligible to post in the section that corresponds to their gender but not their sex. It also seems exclusionary - a girl is no less a girl because she isn't on hormones and a boy is no less a boy because he isn't on hormones.

But I might be treating the matter with a little excess sensitivity. What are your thoughts? Desuetude Bunnyprincess and anyone else who would like to participate in this discussion.

Hmmm, sure people could pretend they're transgender, but there's no reason people couldn't just pretend they're a cisgender boy or girl. I bet there are already people on the forums pretending to be boys and girls and posting in the puberty sections as such.

Yes, I suppose it's intrusive to verify if people are on hormones. I don't know how it could be done anyway.

Internet forums are built on trust. Trusting that a person is of the gender they actually say, trusting their age etc. If a person says they're on hormones what else can we do but believe them?

Yes, a girl is a girl whether she's on hormones or not and the same goes for a boy. I still think the current policy of people being allowed to post based on their biological gender is far more exclusionary.

Elysium
February 21st, 2017, 09:31 PM
I'm really excited to update you guys on this: we've officially gone forward with a rule adjustment. See this (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/announcement.php?a=310) announcement for more information. Thank you for all your feedback and advice!

Bunnyprincess
March 1st, 2017, 01:16 AM
I'm really excited to update you guys on this: we've officially gone forward with a rule adjustment. See announcement for more information. Thank you for all your feedback and advice!

Yay!!! I'm really excited about the new rule, thank you!!!!