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mattsmith48
January 24th, 2017, 03:24 PM
Its pretty clear we don't have any more time to waste on this issue, so when Trump starts America's war on the environment, what should the rest of the world do?

Periphery
January 24th, 2017, 03:50 PM
Its pretty clear we don't have any more time to waste on this issue, so when Trump starts America's war on the environment, what should the rest of the world do?

What can we do? Honestly? Trump is already busy with raping the climate. The thing is, We shouldn't just blame Trump for this. Look at China and India, I feel like the issue there should also be taken care of, and not only targetting the US in order to solve this.

Porpoise101
January 24th, 2017, 04:33 PM
Look at China and India
China is actually taking this issue seriously. Their pollution is harming their population and much of the population lives in coastal areas. Climate change would also ruin much of their farmland due to desertification from the Gobi.

India isn't, they have had a right-wing president who has deregulated a lot of things, and they are just trying to create economic growth without regard for the environment. The only reason they entered the Paris deal was because of US-lead pressure and even then, they got special concessions as a developing nation. PM Modi would be the guy to try to pressure.

Fact is, we Americans create a disproportionate amount of emissions. It's up to the states to get tough now on climate change individually because nationally we are becoming more lenient about it.

bentheplayer
January 25th, 2017, 03:37 AM
If you can't beat them, join them. :P

In all seriousness, the best way to shut those people up is to make them feel and suffer the consequences of their own actions. However, it is unlikely to happen since wealth can be a pretty thick shield against climate change.

There is a lot of disagreement on tackling climate change on a global level, much less national level. As environmental emissions and growth are inter-related it is seen as unfair by developing nations for the developed nations to demand for a emission cap which will likely hinder economic growth of developing countries. Much worse, a significant amount of goods produced in developing countries are ultimately consumed by developed countries yet few officially acknowledge emissions transfer. Think made in China. Also, many are critical of countries that have implemented a carbon tax as it is usually used as a way to raise government revenues instead of being earmarked for environment issues.

The truth is in the short term most countries don't benefit from giving a damn about climate change and since when are politicians far sighted? The only solution is for developed countries to take the lead in this issue. USA has historically been way behind this issue for years and for every step forwards, it takes 3 steps back in just a few years. All it takes is for one country to blink and the whole agreement will collapse. That's basically how international treaties work.

Realistically, the best way to tackle climate change is us. Our generation. Those old fools in power aren't likely to feel the effects of climate change but we will. If we make enough noise and make it our top pressing political concern, those politicians will have no choice but to tackle it seriously or lose their votes. So you(we) are the solution.

Flapjack
January 25th, 2017, 11:47 AM
There is not much we can do about Trump tbh, I don't think we should try pressuring him as he acts like a kid and that will make the situation worse.

We just need to make climate change a top priority in our countries and if he stops research into climate change or stops funding projects, other developed countries should step up and fund the projects etc etc

bentheplayer
January 25th, 2017, 01:45 PM
There is not much we can do about Trump tbh, I don't think we should try pressuring him as he acts like a kid and that will make the situation worse.

We just need to make climate change a top priority in our countries and if he stops research into climate change or stops funding projects, other developed countries should step up and fund the projects etc etc

Ideally, that should be the case but most countries are unwilling to cough out such kinds of money. To the best of my knowledge, the only country that has actually taken comparatively huge steps on environmental protection is China. But that is only because the local people are feeling the effects of climate change/pollution so the government is effectively forced to act.

In terms of economic and game theory, the cost of caring for the environment when others don't can be huge. Also, there is no monetary cost attached to environmental damage. This is especially a problem when the damage isn't felt by the culpable country. Think of rising sea levels/drought/heat wave that are localized? There is currently no system in place to compensate the "losers" for such damage.

Currently, there are still many major challenges in using renewable/green energy such as cost and grid design constrains. To stay on topic, I won't go too in depth in these challenges. However, stuff are not as bad as it seems. Many universities' research depts are very keen on finding the new big solution to our global energy problems. So while there may not be specific funds earmarked for such research, universities are still allocating a portion of their research funding from the state to this cause.

In the mean time, we can stop/reduce our consumption habits. Most of us consume way too much anyways.

Uniquemind
January 25th, 2017, 04:02 PM
Ideally, that should be the case but most countries are unwilling to cough out such kinds of money. To the best of my knowledge, the only country that has actually taken comparatively huge steps on environmental protection is China. But that is only because the local people are feeling the effects of climate change/pollution so the government is effectively forced to act.

In terms of economic and game theory, the cost of caring for the environment when others don't can be huge. Also, there is no monetary cost attached to environmental damage. This is especially a problem when the damage isn't felt by the culpable country. Think of rising sea levels/drought/heat wave that are localized? There is currently no system in place to compensate the "losers" for such damage.

Currently, there are still many major challenges in using renewable/green energy such as cost and grid design constrains. To stay on topic, I won't go too in depth in these challenges. However, stuff are not as bad as it seems. Many universities' research depts are very keen on finding the new big solution to our global energy problems. So while there may not be specific funds earmarked for such research, universities are still allocating a portion of their research funding from the state to this cause.

In the mean time, we can stop/reduce our consumption habits. Most of us consume way too much anyways.


Going vegetarian or at least a meat reductionist diet would do wonders for health, healthcare costs, and environmental costs but would cause a retraction in life stock agricultural jobs.

Although I doubt it really because the public likes their meat too much, for this to occur given that when people have freedom they don't choose decisions for the collective wisdom.

bentheplayer
January 26th, 2017, 03:08 AM
Going vegetarian or at least a meat reductionist diet would do wonders for health, healthcare costs, and environmental costs but would cause a retraction in life stock agricultural jobs.

Although I doubt it really because the public likes their meat too much, for this to occur given that when people have freedom they don't choose decisions for the collective wisdom.

While it is true that the environmental footprint of meat is generally higher that veg, this is not always necessarily true as there are other factors to consider such as farming style, farm to table distribution techniques and per calorie cost. Here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/vegetarian-or-omnivore-the-environmental-implications-of-diet/2014/03/10/648fdbe8-a495-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html?utm_term=.00de3135d005) is a fairly well written article that elaborates further if you are interested. However, what we can do that wil definitely help is to eat fewer calories. Most people in developed countries are consuming more calories than needed, hence the obesity epidemic.

NewLeafsFan
January 28th, 2017, 06:15 PM
Every country is responsible for its part of climate change. We need to cut our carbon footprint each year and put laws on companies restricting their impact. We also need to put a lot of research into eliminating the use of fossil fuels or they will run out.

ethan-s
January 30th, 2017, 11:33 AM
Well last I checked, China and India don't exactly have .much of a policy. Don't be fooled- most of the world is already at war with the environment.

bentheplayer
January 30th, 2017, 12:02 PM
Well last I checked, China and India don't exactly have .much of a policy. Don't be fooled- most of the world is already at war with the environment.

Would you mind sharing where you checked for China since they actually do have a policy. As for India I am not too sure as I don't follow it.

Have you read China's 13th 5 year plan? While it is true that historically China had a very lax approach towards the environment, many citizens are practically demanding that the government do something about it, making it one of their top priorities now. Unlike the US, many parts in China are feeling the immediate and direct effects of these environmental damage.

This the analysis done by KPMG on investment opportunities based on China's plan.
https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/cn/pdf/en/2016/10/13fyp-opportunities-analysis-for-chinese-and-foreign-businesses.pdf

This is the published 13th 5 year plan by China. Its in mandarin tho. And no I didn't read the whole document. My mandarin skills sucks and its so long that it hurts my head when I tried after it was first published.
http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-03/17/content_5054992.htm

themanconnor
February 5th, 2017, 11:48 PM
Make America Safe Again by insuring that we can have a future. Because with what we are currently doing is not enough

mattsmith48
February 9th, 2017, 10:42 PM
Start looking at third party candiates, your canadian; next election take the green party, independants and the bloc more seriously. They all have fresh new views, and encourage your friends to do so too. Maybe we might even have a green party majority in 2019?

Unless we get an electoral reform that would never happen. I like the green party I think they have alot of great ideas, but under FPTP they won't win. An independants MP have little power unless of a perfectly set up minority government where their vote could break a tie, and the Bloc is a one issue party who will never be able to get enough seats to form the government because they are only in one province.

ethan-s
February 10th, 2017, 03:43 PM
Would you mind sharing where you checked for China since they actually do have a policy. As for India I am not too sure as I don't follow it.

Have you read China's 13th 5 year plan? While it is true that historically China had a very lax approach towards the environment, many citizens are practically demanding that the government do something about it, making it one of their top priorities now. Unlike the US, many parts in China are feeling the immediate and direct effects of these environmental damage.

This the analysis done by KPMG on investment opportunities based on China's plan.
https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/cn/pdf/en/2016/10/13fyp-opportunities-analysis-for-chinese-and-foreign-businesses.pdf

This is the published 13th 5 year plan by China. Its in mandarin tho. And no I didn't read the whole document. My mandarin skills sucks and its so long that it hurts my head when I tried after it was first published.
http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-03/17/content_5054992.htm
Maybe they have changed, but still, until they get to he same level as the US currently is, we should wait to do anything.

Porpoise101
February 10th, 2017, 08:47 PM
Maybe they have changed, but still, until they get to he same level as the US currently is, we should wait to do anything.
?

The US releases the most carbon emissions per capita in the world. It's actually amazing that anyone else does anything considering that we do nothing.

bentheplayer
February 10th, 2017, 09:55 PM
Maybe they have changed, but still, until they get to he same level as the US currently is, we should wait to do anything.

This is extremely rich considering that US is way wealthier terms of gdp per capita and that after accounting for cardon transfer will likely be the world highest emitter in the world per capita. Maybe the world should impose a carbon tax on the USA to right all these negative externalities lol. Technically given recent events I am starting to wonder whether the world still needs USA. Sure its a great place to make money but apart from that nothing much that can't be found elsewhere in the world. Talent and knowledge can always be lured out of the states.

As it is China has been gaining grudging respect from various think tanks for being one of the few countries that are actually doing something, possibly even more than many European nations at the moment. It has experienced one of the greatest increase in percentage of clean energy use in the world. Its this mentality of expecting others to clean up ur mess that makes protecting the environment so difficult. To be fair everyone has a certain degree of selfishness but probably not to the extent that is happening in the US in terms of bearing the burden on reducing carbon to combat climate change.

Dalcourt
February 10th, 2017, 11:24 PM
It seemed that there were some intelligent heads and some voices that were heard here in the USA...people at least some seemed to become aware of what we do, how we destroy our surroundings and so our own lifes, too.
Sadly those voices got quieter and quieter again...people became more and more egotistic and since we have this loud voice that screams it wants to make America great again it's hard to hear any voice of reason anyway.
I just think sometimes what will be left to be great again after we are done with destroying everything.
Where I live effects of climate change and other environmental damages are felt a great deal already. Sadly we here aren't important.

As a whole week are on a huge step backwards and I'm afraid it will be way too late till people realise it.
Sure they won't die due to climate change where they live now but I'm not sure if those my age who think that climate change is a myth, isn't man made or whatever arguments they have should bother to have kids cuz there and their grandkids' future might not be so bright anymore.

bentheplayer
February 11th, 2017, 01:05 AM
Peanut_ In the US money always had a bigger say in politics and influencing policies. Actually what the other camp of science said is that climate change is present but not entirely due to human actions. There are a few valid theories proposed for natural causes of climate change not caused by human actions. However, this doesn't mean that human actions doesn't contribute to climate change. Given that the warming trend has been proven by temperature mapping via satellites, if one believe in facts, no sane person can deny global warming. At best they can dispute over the causes of this warming trend. However, if there is even any possibility that human actions contributes to climate change why shouldn't we change our actions even if it means making less profits?

Like many marketing/propaganda campaigns, this has been spin into climate change is a myth. As I have said before, repeating a mantra doesn't make the mantra right.

Living For Love
February 11th, 2017, 08:18 AM
Impressive the fact people suddenly had a urge to save the environment and pay attention to climate change when Trump became POTUS. One more positive aspect of his election, I would say. I wonder how many of all those people who criticise his environment politics actually make small contributions such as separating garbage for recycling, showering instead of having a full bath on a bathtub, turn electronics off when not using them instead of leaving them on stand-by, use less the automobile for short distances and walk instead, etc, etc... Or, I wonder how many of all those people will actually start doing something (hopefully yes). Or, I wonder how many of those dumb Hollywood celebrities who criticise him actually have, I don't know, 1 or 2 solar panels as a source of energy for generating electricity or heating on their multi-millionaire Bel Air mansions. We all know what we can do to save the environment, it's only a matter of actually doing it. Trump could approve all kinds of legislation in order to stop global warming, but if it's not us, citizens, making an effort to change a bit our way of living, it's not of much use...

bentheplayer
February 11th, 2017, 12:23 PM
Impressive the fact people suddenly had a urge to save the environment and pay attention to climate change when Trump became POTUS. One more positive aspect of his election, I would say. I wonder how many of all those people who criticise his environment politics actually make small contributions such as separating garbage for recycling, showering instead of having a full bath on a bathtub, turn electronics off when not using them instead of leaving them on stand-by, use less the automobile for short distances and walk instead, etc, etc... Or, I wonder how many of all those people will actually start doing something (hopefully yes). Or, I wonder how many of those dumb Hollywood celebrities who criticise him actually have, I don't know, 1 or 2 solar panels as a source of energy for generating electricity or heating on their multi-millionaire Bel Air mansions. We all know what we can do to save the environment, it's only a matter of actually doing it. Trump could approve all kinds of legislation in order to stop global warming, but if it's not us, citizens, making an effort to change a bit our way of living, it's not of much use...

Lol. We all need to do our part rather than pointing fingers at others and accusing others for not doing theirs. There is really no need to bash Trump skeptics here for their perceived lack of environmental conservation efforts. That said, considering that energy/environmental policies are under the purview of the government, I think it isn't wrong to expect the government to take the lead. For households to be able to recycle effectively and greenly, the infrastructure has to be in built by the state/city/municipality. It wouldn't be green if more energy has to be expended to recycle the product than what it takes to make it.

As for solar panels, my family did consider it a few years ago but found that it was less environmentally friendly than using electricity from the grid. First off, the manufacturing of solar panels releases a fair amount of greenhouse gases and uses a lot of toxic chemicals which may be illegally dumped. Secondly, the main issue with photovoltaic power is the need to store excess power in batteries for use when there isn't sunlight. Also, not all locations have sufficient usable sunlight. While solar has been marketed as a green energy this is usually not true on a residential scale as it mostly results in a net loss to the environment. Perhaps newer developments might make it a net benefit soon but till then, I really won't suggest solar. Currently, some of cleanest and cost efficient energy sources are still oil and nuclear power plants.

For now, it seems to me that the best way to tackle climate change is reducing consumption on an individual level and robust environmental policies by the government to enable recycling and utilizing cleaner forms of energy. Trump's policy on using coal is just going to be worsen the problem. Even China is shifting very quickly away from coal as coal is the leading cause of smog, acid rain and toxic air. Coal burning also releases more CO2 than oil to produce the same amount of electricity.

Dalcourt
February 11th, 2017, 12:38 PM
Living For Love

Well if you live in a coastal areas in a city below sea level you don't need a President Trump to suddenly become aware of climate change.
Lots of people contribute those little things you mention but this won't safe us if the government makes all these steps backwards.
I don't see why everything has to be a discussion whether Trump is good or bad for the country.


Climate and environment is a global issues. Pointing fingers at each other like toddlers
in kindergarden...claiming I won't stop pollution since the other doesn't enough either is just plain stupid. In the end we will all pay the price