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Flapjack
January 14th, 2017, 07:31 PM
Right this might be a controversial post and obviously that there are very serious issues and I am not trying to belittle them, just want to talk about politics as a whole.

What I think people need to realise is that whether you are far left or far right, your goal is to improve society and the lives of people. I couldn't imagine people resolving any other kind of dispute with name calling.

Whether it is global warming, immigration or tax rates, if you truly believe in your opinion then why get so worked up? Just explain why you think what you do and explain why and if your opponent is kind enough to do the same to you, listen! There is nothing wrong with changing your mind, it annoys me when people dismiss info and arguments just because it came from the 'other side'. I have personally changed my options on many issues and I think some of them changes came from debates on here!

Anyways rant over xD

The Byrd
January 14th, 2017, 07:41 PM
When you realise how little you affect you, it becomes comedic. Your individual ideology is formulated purely on the talking points and statistics of others. Your vocabulary is formed by the prevailing preferences of the day. And overall, next to everything you do is based upon an urge caused by someone else. We're all robots who will live for a relative short while and will die. It's all very irrelevant if you ask me.

Dalcourt
January 14th, 2017, 11:43 PM
Flapjack I often think about similar stuff, too. As you said everyone can change their minds on things. In theory everyone is able to listen to pros and cons of a subject, but reality is do people wanna listen?
Things have always been like that and we lived good with it so why hurt your brain and think about if it's really reasonable to stay like that in our day and age? It always involves admitting than parts of what you believed in is wrong and who likes to admit they were wrong?

I for my part don't really believe in any political party...I just read and listen and form my personal opinions that's the reason why some people often feel that those opinions are weird and don't really get them. I usually look at both sides of a thing before I form my opinion about it. So usually if you attack my opinion you'd attack me personally. But even if you do I'd just try to explain my point of view, asked you questions about yours and not rope your head off.
Accepting others is the key to all major things for me but that's also just one of my crazy believes.

In general people feel that they are personally offended cuz they are so indoctrinated by a rhetoric they follow that they think it's what they have personally invented. We all do that to some extent of course...that's the power of our media...

And now, like you, I hope to get others opinions on that subject cuz I find this highly interesting, not from a political but a psychological point of view.

Uniquemind
January 15th, 2017, 03:16 AM
Right this might be a controversial post and obviously that there are very serious issues and I am not trying to belittle them, just want to talk about politics as a whole.

What I think people need to realize is that whether you are far left or far right, your goal is to improve society and the lives of people. I couldn't imagine people resolving any other kind of dispute with name calling.

Whether it is global warming, immigration or tax rates, if you truly believe in your opinion then why get so worked up? Just explain why you think what you do and explain why and if your opponent is kind enough to do the same to you, listen! There is nothing wrong with changing your mind, it annoys me when people dismiss info and arguments just because it came from the 'other side'. I have personally changed my options on many issues and I think some of them changes came from debates on here!

Anyways rant over xD

That's what we should be doing but the reason is due to the fact that big money is usually involved. The upper classes are used too and feel entitled to a specific type of lifestyle which requires them to bring in a certain level of income even after they leave the job of a senator or congressmen, usually lobbyists pay the level salary they're looking for. (So the issue is a revolving door)

Then you have ideological beliefs regarding "superiority" whether that's economical, racist, sexist, or religious type of distaste for certain people. Maybe those people are smart enough not to publicly state such views, but passive actions, what policies they end up supporting, and who they surround themselves with, tend to indicate such views in a privately protected way such that requires evidence in court to prove.



When such ideology pollutes the mind of a person, it will prevent them from "listening" or really empathizing, it's not that they don't hear opposing views, it's that they refuse at a deep mental level, to digest information logically and emotionally from an empathetic point of view, and when fingers are pointing at them calling them horrible names, the first human reaction is that they get defensive.

When people get defensive it is even harder for them to accept or hear opposing views let alone draft policy that is in the spirit of compromise.


Also combine all of that with public money legislation issues, the above money issue was personal, but this issue is about how all different committees are competing for funds for programs, some funding the private sector, and also what Pres. Eisenhower warned us about "military-industrial complex" an expensive giant. Social programs like medicare and medicaid are also vital to many state and individual household budgets.



So politics gets personal, because the pain of it is felt almost immediately depending on which programs get cut.

In 2010 I remember my school days got cut down, and that impacted how fast teachers graded things, and how fast the course and quality education I received.


A lot of problems really come down the societal infrastructure and gluttonous culture of citizens themselves too, people don't really have much empathy nor will to understand how much waste we generate for our consumer culture, our addiction to meat diets, and how much that's destroying the planet.

We just expect it, and citizens need to understand we're much of the problem in the same way politicians are too.


The solution I offer is a redesign of 1st world culture from policy all the way to how government legislation is done, but the powers that be does not want to get rid of the current system both big and small.

Small doesn't think they have enough influence to change the system, while the big entities are addicted to the power they control, and they pride themselves on the influence they have over the system, it speaks to the human ego, and a smaller fraction believe they are the stewards of order and they think without the status quo, the system will collapse because people are savages (aka: black friday shoppers are their justification).



Have I successfully answered the original poster's question?

PlasmaHam
January 15th, 2017, 09:34 PM
There are certain aspects of politics I can understand getting personal about. Politics that directly affect your life are naturally worrying. But I believe you are talking more about the broader aspects of political influence, and I agree about the over-reacting so many have. However I believe this is far more sociological than political.

I think one part of it is personal ideologies. Everybody has one, whether or not you are truthful enough to admit it. Some people are more accepting of challenges to their ideologies. Others are so protective of their ideology that they dismiss challenges to it in a near religious manner. That statement probably rubs you the wrong way, you have repeatedly been dismissive of a secular person acting in a religious way about something, so let me explain using some examples. Someone challenges the Bible, they are an ungodly heathen. Someone challenges gay marriage, they are a hateful bigots. Someone disagrees with Jesus' teachings, they are an immoral, faithless person. Someone doesn't like increasing welfare payments, they are anti-poor elitists. Both are instances where people defend personal ideologies in a manner you may describe as religious, despite only one being an actual religion. You have an personal ideology, I have a personal ideology, and sometimes we became so enclosed in it that we dismiss all challenges to it, and see any challenges as personal attacks.

Another thing which I think is really causing the modern sense of personal politics and dismissiveness towards other views is the fact that we live in a pick-and-choose world. So many people only choose media, friends, and places that support their ideals, and the internet allows us to do such. We have become so closed-minded through social media, internet forums, safe spaces, free-speech zones, and "news" sites, that we won't even consider challenges to our views. Of course if you are reading this then you probably aren't like that.

I am doing my own little rant here, very relevant to this discussion. I feel like personal-politics, name calling, and closed mindedness are very much obvious in the wake of the Trump election. I am not going to go much further since I don't want this to become a Trump debate, but let me just say this. The next time you want to call one of his policies hateful, or the next time you feel personally threatened by his election, or the next time you want to challenge Trump's legitimacy, just sit back and think. I want you to consider the hard facts, I want you to consider if you are just overreacting, I want you to consider if your action or comment is going to help or hurt society as a whole, and then I want you to speak. If we had more people who would just calm down and consider the facts, then this world would be much better off.

Matryoshkasystem
January 16th, 2017, 01:41 AM
Same as the ones above, but considering we take something etremely personal i want to give a little feedback. Sometimes the reactions-or overreaction thereof- are due less to how they view stuff, the current norm, etc; and in fact more due to their identity. For example, wih us, we are multiple, more than one person inhabiting this body, this leads us to react more when it comes to representation-cough disgusting movie split cough-, since we have yet to be brought to majority's eyes. Every thing can shape how people view us...and we have yet to be portrayed 1% correct on anything, except United States of Tara-even then it's a strech-. So in certain circumstances, such as mental minorites, it deals less with a imaginary threat to them, and more of a quite legitimate threat. This is just my two cents though, and probably could be worded better, just not used to being out.

Uniquemind
January 16th, 2017, 01:42 AM
There are certain aspects of politics I can understand getting personal about. Politics that directly affect your life are naturally worrying. But I believe you are talking more about the broader aspects of political influence, and I agree about the over-reacting so many have. However I believe this is far more sociological than political.

I think one part of it is personal ideologies. Everybody has one, whether or not you are truthful enough to admit it. Some people are more accepting of challenges to their ideologies. Others are so protective of their ideology that they dismiss challenges to it in a near religious manner. That statement probably rubs you the wrong way, you have repeatedly been dismissive of a secular person acting in a religious way about something, so let me explain using some examples. Someone challenges the Bible, they are an ungodly heathen. Someone challenges gay marriage, they are a hateful bigots. Someone disagrees with Jesus' teachings, they are an immoral, faithless person. Someone doesn't like increasing welfare payments, they are anti-poor elitists. Both are instances where people defend personal ideologies in a manner you may describe as religious, despite only one being an actual religion. You have an personal ideology, I have a personal ideology, and sometimes we became so enclosed in it that we dismiss all challenges to it, and see any challenges as personal attacks.

Another thing which I think is really causing the modern sense of personal politics and dismissiveness towards other views is the fact that we live in a pick-and-choose world. So many people only choose media, friends, and places that support their ideals, and the internet allows us to do such. We have become so closed-minded through social media, internet forums, safe spaces, free-speech zones, and "news" sites, that we won't even consider challenges to our views. Of course if you are reading this then you probably aren't like that.

I am doing my own little rant here, very relevant to this discussion. I feel like personal-politics, name calling, and closed mindedness are very much obvious in the wake of the Trump election. I am not going to go much further since I don't want this to become a Trump debate, but let me just say this. The next time you want to call one of his policies hateful, or the next time you feel personally threatened by his election, or the next time you want to challenge Trump's legitimacy, just sit back and think. I want you to consider the hard facts, I want you to consider if you are just overreacting, I want you to consider if your action or comment is going to help or hurt society as a whole, and then I want you to speak. If we had more people who would just calm down and consider the facts, then this world would be much better off.

Agreed, the problem is not with facts, it's that I feel people are ignoring evidences that should be already understood to be factual, but nobody acknowledges current facts.


It's like critical thinking doesn't exist, unless people see the effects after the fact.


There exists such a thing as abstract thought, where we KNOW blue and yellow when mixed makes green. We don't need to reprove the experiment in each instant to expect the public to understand that because they haven't seen the experiment proven or performed in recent memory.

Porpoise101
January 17th, 2017, 03:43 PM
Well to me there are two broad spheres of politics, social and economic.

Social policy relates to your rights, duties, and privileges you enjoy. If you are at risk of losing or have the potential to gain from a shifting circumstance, then of course you are going to be passionate.

Economic policy encompasses not just your employment and income, but also public health and the environment. If you fear the adverse effects of pollution, poverty, and other such issues affecting you personally, then it makes sense that you feel angry when a politician proposes something that could destroy your business or give you lung cancer.

Another piece to look at is the personal ideology that PlasmaHam has noted above. Your beliefs attach to you because your political beliefs reflect your worldview. It intersects with your ethics and even religious beliefs. And so, people become worked up because they see their identities and their way of lives being changed (or staying the same).

buriedalive
January 17th, 2017, 11:53 PM
People get heated about their beliefs because they're beliefs. They shape whoever the person is, and people will do anything to protect their core beliefs.

Uniquemind
January 21st, 2017, 03:06 AM
People get heated about their beliefs because they're beliefs. They shape whoever the person is, and people will do anything to protect their core beliefs.

This is a flaw in the human design in my opinion.

bentheplayer
January 21st, 2017, 05:41 AM
It might be because people tend to resort to emotions and cheap shots when they can no longer logically defend their opinions; pretty much like how Trump frequently relies name-calling. Personally I find it highly amusing when a person ends up regressing to nursery age behavior as that is the best they can do to show their disapproval. You know that's when their conviction is on some kind of baseless faith like unicorns.

On the other hand, as what others have mentioned, policies can have huge immediate impact on people's lives. In those cases, messing with those policies are akin to playing god with their lives. Hence how can one expect them not to feel emotional when they are being targeted? Wouldn't you feel angry if you are implicitly told that others matter more than you?

Uniquemind
January 21st, 2017, 03:50 PM
It might be because people tend to resort to emotions and cheap shots when they can no longer logically defend their opinions; pretty much like how Trump frequently relies name-calling. Personally I find it highly amusing when a person ends up regressing to nursery age behavior as that is the best they can do to show their disapproval. You know that's when their conviction is on some kind of baseless faith like unicorns.

On the other hand, as what others have mentioned, policies can have huge immediate impact on people's lives. In those cases, messing with those policies are akin to playing god with their lives. Hence how can one expect them not to feel emotional when they are being targeted? Wouldn't you feel angry if you are implicitly told that others matter more than you?


I think of it like this; emotions are like alcohol, you process it in small doses.

"Drinking" too much of either can compromises rational judgement and foresight, and can put someone in a dangerous spot, but you don't want to put a prohibition on either, because that's also impractical, irrational and dangerous.

A place for everything, and everything in it's place.

bentheplayer
January 22nd, 2017, 03:11 AM
I think of it like this; emotions are like alcohol, you process it in small doses.

"Drinking" too much of either can compromises rational judgement and foresight, and can put someone in a dangerous spot, but you don't want to put a prohibition on either, because that's also impractical, irrational and dangerous.

A place for everything, and everything in it's place.

Simply put, most people can't process info rationally? That seems to be case when ignorant people just want to win for the sake of it.

Uniquemind
January 22nd, 2017, 03:50 AM
Simply put, most people can't process info rationally? That seems to be case when ignorant people just want to win for the sake of it.

All too true.

I guess what irks me about this fact is that, humans can choose to transcend this, but they don't by choice.


If humanity on a mass scale continues down this path it's going to destroy us, and the minority few who have chosen the higher path get dragged down by the anchor of everyone else.

bentheplayer
January 22nd, 2017, 04:56 AM
All too true.

I guess what irks me about this fact is that, humans can choose to transcend this, but they don't by choice.


If humanity on a mass scale continues down this path it's going to destroy us, and the minority few who have chosen the higher path get dragged down by the anchor of everyone else.

Haha. No wonder they say pride comes before a downfall while the humble will triumph and gain honor.