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View Full Version : See I was right; He's not keeping promises.


Uniquemind
January 10th, 2017, 07:46 PM
1. Trump fires all Ambassadors and Special Envoys, ordering them out by inauguration day.

2. House brings back the Holman rule allowing them to reduce an individual civil service, SES positions, or political appointee's salary to $1, effectively firing them by amendment to any piece of legislation.

3. Senate schedules 6 simultaneous hearings on cabinet nominees and triple-books those hearings with Trump's first press conference in months and an ACA budget vote, effectively preventing any concentrated coverage or protest.

4. House GOP expressly forbids the Congressional Budget Office from reporting or tracking ANY costs related to the repeal of the ACA.

5. Trump continues to throw the intelligence community under the bus to protect Putin, despite the growing mountain of evidence that the Russians deliberately interfered in our election.

6. Trump breaks a central campaign promise to make Mexico pay for the wall by asking Congress (in other words, us, the taxpayers) to pay for it.

7. Trump threatens Toyota over a new plant that was never coming to the US nor will take jobs out of the US.

8. House passes the REINS act, giving them veto power over any rules enacted by any federal agency or department--for example, FDA or EPA bans a drug or pesticide, Congress can overrule based on lobbying efforts not science. Don't like that endangered species designation, Congress kills it.



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These actions validate the concerns of those who were not for Trump, even if you are a Trump supporter you have to agree this is not something good.

This is why specifically the Republican Party has very little morals in my humble opinion, and I don't see why the public electorate thinks they're so great. They used to be, but now they're in the pocket of lobbyists almost to a degree more extreme than democrats are in my opinion.

Voice_Of_Unreason
January 10th, 2017, 09:23 PM
This happens with every single politician and political party. I could list hundreds of broken Obama and Democratic party promises. And besides the Mexico-pay-for-the-wall thing(which I honestly never believed), none of these are actual broken Trump promises, just your rant about the Republican party and other random things.

BTW, you know the REINS act was implemented to respond to Obama and his cabinet's abuse and politically motivated use of executive power in regulating? Constitutionally, Congress has every right to counter regulations stemming from federal agencies.

I am going to wait until Trump is actually president before judging his promises though.

Porpoise101
January 11th, 2017, 09:23 PM
Thread should be called: See I was right; Republican Party is not good
8. House passes the REINS act, giving them veto power over any rules enacted by any federal agency or department--for example, FDA or EPA bans a drug or pesticide, Congress can overrule based on lobbying efforts not science. Don't like that endangered species designation, Congress kills it.
I agree with your assessment as a whole, but this point is more complex than what you've outlined. First up: the REINS Act would not affect past legislation/regulation. It will only limit the President's capability to make regulations which would directly cost $100,000,000 (at the outset).

If the Presidency wants to make such a regulation, whether it is environmental, health, or immigration-related, it will have to seek approval from Congress. While this doesn't seem like a lot, this will allow Congress to effectively stall-out any new regulation of consequence, because any important measure will affect the economy. This will really stifle the ability of the Executive branch to pursue independent policies of the Legislature.

The interesting thing to watch is whether Trump signs or vetoes. If he signs, it is a sign that he is willing to give up more control to Congress (presumably for some other political favors). If he vetoes the bill, it may cause some fractures within the Republican party in the short-term. However, it will definitely free up his hands in the future, allowing his more unique positions to be put in place.

Of course, it will have to get through the Senate before any of this happens.

Uniquemind
January 12th, 2017, 03:38 AM
Thread should be called: See I was right; Republican Party is not good

I agree with your assessment as a whole, but this point is more complex than what you've outlined. First up: the REINS Act would not affect past legislation/regulation. It will only limit the President's capability to make regulations which would directly cost $100,000,000 (at the outset).

If the Presidency wants to make such a regulation, whether it is environmental, health, or immigration-related, it will have to seek approval from Congress. While this doesn't seem like a lot, this will allow Congress to effectively stall-out any new regulation of consequence, because any important measure will affect the economy. This will really stifle the ability of the Executive branch to pursue independent policies of the Legislature.

The interesting thing to watch is whether Trump signs or vetoes. If he signs, it is a sign that he is willing to give up more control to Congress (presumably for some other political favors). If he vetoes the bill, it may cause some fractures within the Republican party in the short-term. However, it will definitely free up his hands in the future, allowing his more unique positions to be put in place.

Of course, it will have to get through the Senate before any of this happens.

Yes, this is true, but remember the executive branch only had to do "solo" actions because from 2010-13, essentially Congress was gridlocked on making a budget to keep government running, let alone pass any new legislation.

If that scenario rears it's head again, the country's credit, teacher pensions, education funding for K-12 schools, Medicare and Medicaid, and money to maintain roads and bridges supplemental to individual state efforts, are going to be impact.

Individual households will feel it, or does the public at large not see the connect-the-dots, logic here?

It was 4 years ago, I'm really afraid people have short memories here and lack the cognition or at least the discipline to see how this fits together.

It's very concerning and it will affect all of us transitioning right into college from high school, right when a lot of us need to buy our first car (although I do have this expense taken care of personally; many of my peers don't).

Professional Russian
January 12th, 2017, 06:57 AM
dude he's a politician...every politician in the history of man kind has lied. what did you expect? him to actually do what he says? only if politics worked that way.

Porpoise101
January 12th, 2017, 10:24 PM
dude he's a politician...every politician in the history of man kind has lied. what did you expect? him to actually do what he says? only if politics worked that way.
Sure, you can take this approach. I agree that you should not get your hopes up. However, I think it is worthwhile to hold elected officials accountable.

Uniquemind
January 13th, 2017, 12:38 AM
dude he's a politician...every politician in the history of man kind has lied. what did you expect? him to actually do what he says? only if politics worked that way.

True, but he didn't market himself on the campaign that way.

So I judge him by different standards due to that. Because he wanted to be seen differently.

Professional Russian
January 13th, 2017, 06:53 AM
True, but he didn't market himself on the campaign that way.

So I judge him by different standards due to that. Because he wanted to be seen differently.

it doesn't matter how they market themselves politicians are politicians. every last one of them is a liar. they lie to get where they want and then do what they want. thats exactly what a politician is.

mattsmith48
January 13th, 2017, 12:39 PM
Mexico is not paying for the wall, who could have predicted that besides everyone?

it doesn't matter how they market themselves politicians are politicians. every last one of them is a liar. they lie to get where they want and then do what they want. thats exactly what a politician is.

No, that's exactly what a human being is, everyone as lied multiple times in their lives, and everyone did broke a few promises a some point in their lives. Some are worst, but they aren't all politicians.

Professional Russian
January 13th, 2017, 01:43 PM
Mexico is not paying for the wall, who could have predicted that besides everyone?



No, that's exactly what a human being is, everyone as lied multiple times in their lives, and everyone did broke a few promises a some point in their lives. Some are worst, but they aren't all politicians.
but every politician is a lieing cheat who lies to get where they want to be.

Uniquemind
January 13th, 2017, 07:41 PM
but every politician is a lieing cheat who lies to get where they want to be.

it doesn't matter how they market themselves politicians are politicians. every last one of them is a liar. they lie to get where they want and then do what they want. thats exactly what a politician is.


There's a little bit of truth to this but I think this is more human nature it's just displayed publicly and with stronger ripple effects when you're in a position of power.

It may not be the standard you hold people to but it's the standard I hold people to and we can agree to disagree on this. It is not an excuse for them because others do it.


Mexico is not paying for the wall, who could have predicted that besides everyone?



No, that's exactly what a human being is, everyone as lied multiple times in their lives, and everyone did broke a few promises a some point in their lives. Some are worst, but they aren't all politicians.

I think a lot of people actually did believe that Mexico will pay for the wall. I think a lot of people don't think logically during campaigns or elections; they vote emotionally and that's why intelligence and truth is not a part of this policy.

Voice_Of_Unreason
January 13th, 2017, 09:25 PM
No, that's exactly what a human being is, everyone as lied multiple times in their lives, and everyone did broke a few promises a some point in their lives. Some are worst, but they aren't all politicians.
Not every liar is a politician, but every politician is a liar.
I think a lot of people actually did believe that Mexico will pay for the wall. I think a lot of people don't think logically during campaigns or elections; they vote emotionally and that's why intelligence and truth is not a part of this policy. Some people did believe in the wall, but most did not. I did not take his claims that he was going to build a great wall and make Mexico pay for it literally. But that rallying cry did show me that Trump had initiative towards stopping illegal immigration, and that sense of initiative carried over to his other policies. So you can say that some of that is emotionally based, but Trump's victory wasn't caused by ignorant, emotional people like you say it was.

Dalcourt
January 13th, 2017, 10:43 PM
Maybe we should wait a year or so to discuss whether Trump kept his promises and is the really making America great again?

This whole election was so highly emotional and people( and Trump himself) just have to start to put away all those irrational emotions and start to use their brains and common sense again - as far as they have it of course.

Uniquemind
January 14th, 2017, 02:39 AM
Maybe we should wait a year or so to discuss whether Trump kept his promises and is the really making America great again?

This whole election was so highly emotional and people( and Trump himself) just have to start to put away all those irrational emotions and start to use their brains and common sense again - as far as they have it of course.


Not every liar is a politician, but every politician is a liar.
Some people did believe in the wall, but most did not. I did not take his claims that he was going to build a great wall and make Mexico pay for it literally. But that rallying cry did show me that Trump had initiative towards stopping illegal immigration, and that sense of initiative carried over to his other policies. So you can say that some of that is emotionally based, but Trump's victory wasn't caused by ignorant, emotional people like you say it was.

I beg to differ, where was it rationally discussed with acknowledgement of the limitation of powers, of which problems are realistically going to get fixed and which ones are impractical promises given the constraints of law now.

Most of the campaign was emotional, and it was about hot-mic issues and very little about math, budgets, policies etc...


But Peanut is right, we need to see more to see if I am right or if I was wrong. So far it looks like i'm right based on the choices he's made thus far.

lliam
January 14th, 2017, 02:41 AM
He's not keeping promises.


Has anyone ever expected anything else?

mattsmith48
January 14th, 2017, 11:14 AM
Not every liar is a politician, but every politician is a liar.

Most politicians are has much of a liar as anyone else, some are liars yes, but in general politicians aren't liars, problem is when a politician lie it affects more people than if an accountant lies.

Flapjack
January 14th, 2017, 05:46 PM
Well the one promise I hoped he would keep he hasn't so I am pretty disappointed.

Uniquemind
January 15th, 2017, 02:57 AM
Most politicians are has much of a liar as anyone else, some are liars yes, but in general politicians aren't liars, problem is when a politician lie it affects more people than if an accountant lies.

Not every liar is a politician, but every politician is a liar.


Politicians are in an awkward spot right, because on the one hand they have many different constituents with different points of views, sometimes opposing points of view, and they are basically asked to please them all for re-election, so naturally someone has to get screwed.

The question as to what degree are people getting screwed over, and does that make logical sense for the general welfare of the larger geographical area (in this case the district they represent, which is also a piece of the larger federal budget and agenda on the grander scale).


It's very much a balancing act so there's more criteria that needs to be used as a measurement here.

In Trump's case...it's weird only because the promises he made, make little sense budget wise, and they were largely emotional appeals. There was a much fairer way to criticize the current policy without going to the extreme of "throwing the baby out with the bath water" kind of grand-sweeping statements.

Flapjack
January 15th, 2017, 11:55 AM
Not every liar is a politician, but every politician is a liar.

I don't think Bernie Sanders was, he has a long track record of pushing for progressive change even when no one was watching. When Obama and Clinton was against gay marriage, he was openly in support for it.

I think the problem with all the politicians lying is caused by money in politics!

Uniquemind
January 24th, 2017, 07:06 PM
So here's an update, Keystone Pipeline as well as the Dakota Access Pipeline are new revived issues. Trump revived them.

We had an older thread here discussing why the Keystone Pipeline was bad, so I think that should be reread to remind us the pros and cons of that.

It's a large environmental and cost repair issue, given that pipelines can leak pretty badly, and environmental cleanups are half-heartedly done, and it ends up affecting landowners (both residential and businesses).

In this case, a leak would impact a lot of farmland which is bad for the nation as a whole.