PDA

View Full Version : Bulgarian Migrant Brutally Kicks German Woman Down Stairs In Berlin Subway


Kahn
December 17th, 2016, 01:57 AM
Prosecutors believe they have identified a yob who kicked a woman down a flight of stairs at a Berlin subway station but he has fled to his native Bulgaria.

A local tabloid has reported that public prosecutors in Germany have identified him as Svetoslav Stoykov, 26, but cannot arrest him because he has left the country.

The incident in October was captured in a video shared this week.

Bulgarian media say Stoykov is married to a woman called Tsvetanka, with whom he has three children.

Bulgarian Nova TV reported Stoykov had a long criminal record in Bulgaria.

He was born in the city of Dobrich in northern Bulgaria, but currently lives in Varna, a resort on the Black Sea coast.

A Bulgarian TV journalist who visited the house in the Maksuda district spoke to Tsvetanka's parents through a huge iron gate at the front of the house.

Stoykov's mother-in-law Ibryan said: 'We don't know about the video. We haven't seen it, and I don't want to watch it.'

They said that while the pair were in Germany, they were staying at the house and looking after the children but they refused to let the TV team inside.

German media had reported earlier that the culprit had gone back to Bulgaria, and if this turns out to be the case, they are likely to request his extradition.

In the video the four men can be seen following the young woman down into the metro, with one of them kicking her while she is going down the stairs.

A crowd of people quickly came to help the woman, who was taken to hospital, according to local media.
Bulgarian media reported that all four men in the shocking video were Bulgarians.

German police had only interviewed one of the men who apparently in the video and who gave the crucial information about the attacker before he was released on bail.

The woman is seen landing on her face on the floor several steps down, with other people rushing over to help her as the contents of her purse are scattered. The gang then wander off with one stopping briefly to retrieve a dropped beer bottle.

The Bulgarian Interior Ministry said they have had no extradition request but will cooperate with German police if they get one.

After the video went viral, a €2,000 (£1,677) reward was offered by bodyguard Michael Kuehr, 54, who worked for Lady Gaga and Charlize Theron.

She lands painfully on her face, sprawling on the hard surface, the contents of her handbag scattering across the floor.

The attacker, flanked by three friends, walks back up the stairs and saunters away.

One of his accomplices lingers for a second to retrieve a dropped bottle and then strolls away with the rest.

Mr Kuehr said: 'I am an absolute opponent of vigilantism, there are laws. I see myself as a supporter of the police.'

Source (https://archive.is/PYxaN)

---

Thoughts?

Dalcourt
December 17th, 2016, 09:39 AM
Well I'm not sure cuz I don't really get what the intentions of this article are.

Of course kicking someone from behind like that is a disgusting act of unnecessary violence. And that the assault cannot go unpunished is without any questions.

But there are a lot of things I don't really get.
Is it in any way important that the assaulter was a migrant? Would it make any difference if he was just another German citizen cuz the background of this person is explained in such great detail.
Should this somehow criticise Germany's migrant policy? Or why is this stressed so much?

It doesn't seem like the the culprit was being caught because of the reward offered by this guy mentioned or did I read that wrong? So what should this tell us? Should there always be a reward so to make some sort of bounty hunters out of everyone to catch such people more easily? Police offers some sort of reward in cases like that in Germany anyway...so should more money being offered be seen as making any difference in catching criminals?

I mean what happened was a nasty crime and it is shown that having good cameras installed helps catching those criminals but I can't really grasp the whole purpose of the article.

PlasmaHam
December 17th, 2016, 10:19 AM
I could tell you 50 more reports about violence from Syrian immigrants. This is far from an isolated incident. The migrant crisis is getting so bad that even liberal countries like Austria, Germany, Norway, and Sweden are actively trying to get rid of them after previously welcoming them in open arms.

Here is a recent one, but I could list more if you want:

Two women claimed they were dismissed by the prosecution after they had suffered [a] horrific attack by a mob of migrants in Germany…

“He groped my intimate area. Eight policeman arrested him.” After they had arrested the suspect, the sex attacks went on as soon as the police left again, this time by the whole group of migrants. She added: “And no one helped me.”

During the investigation, [the Public Prosecutor’s Office in Oldenburg] wrote to the victims: “It is quite conceivable that the young men just wanted to show in this way they were interested in you.”

Source (http://louderwithcrowder.com/sex-attack-just-showing-interest/)

Rape culture indeed, this is so bad even the Russians are against it:

Thousands of Russian-speakers took to the streets across Germany at the weekend protesting against what they say is a cover-up by police.
“Our children are in danger,” read one banner. “Hands off my child,” read another.
Seven-hundred protesters gathered outside Angela Merkel’s chancellery on Saturday and other demonstrations have been held outside asylum-seekers’ homes in Berlin and Southern Germany.

...But German police say that after questioning and examination it was clear that Lisa F was not abducted and not raped. Sexual contact was not forced, say officers. Because the girl is only 13 years old prosecutors are investigating two men for child abuse.
The age of consent in Germany is 14 and while sex with an under-aged child is classed as statutory rape, it is generally seen as child abuse if violence was not used.
Source (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-eu-35413134)
Yep, so rape is only defined as such if there is some sort of violence. Of course feminists don't care about actual rape, the mythical 70% pay and displaying their nude bodies are so much more important.

Vlerchan
December 17th, 2016, 10:20 AM
I guessed it was from the DailyMail without even opening.

Thoughts?
1. There should be greater co-operation in policing across the EU.

2. The single sort of contribution that these articles make to the debate is to sharpen prejudices and polarize debates. The facts of one instance are only relevant to the demagogue. Reasonable discussion requires reference to the wide array of data and statistical analysis we have collected, and continue to collect, on the contributions of immigrants to our civil society.

This sort of reporting is, to sum, counterproductive in both facilitating discussion and adequate solutions to the issues immigration raises, if not outright poisonous.

Of course feminists don't care about actual rape[.]
I do. I have also said multiple times on this forum that refugees that commit sexual crimes should be interned. I also suggested from the beginning that the current policy on refugees, given its intersections with gender politics, was entirely inadequate.

- radical feminist.

Yep, so rape is only defined as such if there is some sort of violence.
1. That's only in the case of statutory rape.

2. There's recognition across feminist publication that German sex crimes laws are, to be frank, Victorian. It was only this year that a law was passed which said that it was irrelevant whether victims of rape made attempts to defend themselves or not. To put that in perspective, that submission does not entail consent has been recognized in British and Irish law since the middle of the 19th century [R v Camplin (1845); R v Fletcher (1859)]. It should be noted that this was passed, in part, as a response of the increasing number of claims that groups of migrants had raped or sexually-assaulted German women (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36726095), so let's not pretend that liberal-society doesn't care about that either.

PlasmaHam
December 17th, 2016, 10:27 AM
I do. I have also said multiple times on this forum that refugees that commit sexual crimes should be interned. I also suggested from the beginning that the current policy on refugees, given its intersections with gender politics, was entirely inadequate.
Yes, typically when I refer to feminists I talk of the "Radical feminists." I normally don't call them radical feminists because honestly their positions are starting to become more of the norms in feminism. I really hold no ill-feelings towards the more traditional feminist like yourself.

Vlerchan
December 17th, 2016, 10:45 AM
Yes, typically when I refer to feminists I talk of the "Radical feminists."
I am a radical feminist and have been pretty outrightly the most radical voice on the subject since I signed up on this board. The issue with a lot of feminists isn't their feminism, per se, but rather 1. the manner in which is intersects with their other political priorities - cultural-libertarianism, post-nationalism -, 2. the humanities inability to deal competently with statistics and, thus, their uncritical digestion of such (I am basically doing an applied statistics degree, so this stands out to be in particular).

So, I do make criticisms about the pay-gap but they are of an entirely different orientation (more about culturally-induced choice than discrimination), etc.

Or, in short, feminists are typically liberals who present for other liberals, which alienates a range of conservatives. This is improving, there's been an increase in the number of conservative feminist thinkers, in recent times. For example, the American Conservative magazine did a good feature of the radical feminist arguments being made against abortion quite recently.

Dalcourt
December 17th, 2016, 10:54 AM
I could tell you 50 more reports about violence from Syrian immigrants. This is far from an isolated incident. The migrant crisis is getting so bad that even liberal countries like Austria, Germany, Norway, and Sweden are actively trying to get rid of them after previously welcoming them in open arms.

Here is a recent one, but I could list more if you want:


Source (http://louderwithcrowder.com/sex-attack-just-showing-interest/)

Rape culture indeed, this is so bad even the Russians are against it:


Source (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-eu-35413134)
Yep, so rape is only defined as such if there is some sort of violence. Of course feminists don't care about actual rape, the mythical 70% pay and displaying their nude bodies are so much more important.

It may be all right and true what you say and don't condone rape in any way.
But what has this to do with article of the OP?
The woman wasn't raped she was kicked in the back from behind while walking down the stairs in a metro station. She wasn't touched in any other way by the assaulter.

The guy was from Bulgaria a country in Southeastern Europe...so he doesn't really have to do with the current immigration problems anyone speaks about.

So this just confuses me even more than clarifying the intention of the article for me.

Kahn
December 17th, 2016, 11:03 AM
So this just confuses me even more than clarifying the intention of the article for me.

My intention for posting the article was to share a news story about a Bulgarian migrant who, while residing in Germany, assaulted a woman in cold blood, only to flee back to his native country of Bulgaria, in fear of persecution.

Vlerchan
December 17th, 2016, 11:11 AM
My intention for posting the article was to share a news story about a Bulgarian migrant who, while residing in Germany, assaulted a woman in cold blood, only to flee back to his native country of Bulgaria, in fear of persecution.
Is there some generalisable principal that you felt could be extracted from the discussion an analysis of the article? Penut_'s point seems to be that he doesn't seem to see a reason to adjust his priors when it comes to future discussions of immigration.

I can only agree that there should be greater policing cooperation across the EU, if that's what your intention was.

Kahn
December 17th, 2016, 11:15 AM
There should be greater policing cooperation across the EU, if that's what your intention was.

I have stated my intention.

Vlerchan
December 17th, 2016, 11:35 AM
I have stated my intention.
To be more pointed, earlier in this thread I criticised the reporting as failing to inform anything more than a set of prejudices, being counter-productive insofar as reasonable discussion is concerned, if not poisoning debate on the topic. I still believe these things. In connection to that post, and my current stance, I am wondering what information or principals you believe we can extract from the article that might facilitate deeper thought on the issue, if at all there is.

Or, more succinctly, do you feel that the information is generalisable to the extent that it might inform policy.

If you don't, that's fine, and we can all agree that the migrant-in-question is nasty and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of German law. But if you do, then you are making a political point and this one would hope you would be forthright about that.

For example, you might agree with me that it serves as a reminder for greater policing co-operation across the EU.

Dalcourt
December 17th, 2016, 11:46 AM
My intention for posting the article was to share a news story about a Bulgarian migrant who, while residing in Germany, assaulted a woman in cold blood, only to flee back to his native country of Bulgaria, in fear of persecution.

My question wasn't really about your intention but about the article's intention.
I just don't understand whether it's another let's hate on migrants article or a crime report.

I have a friend from Germany who told me about some terrible crime in the area where she lives. A man killed his girlfriend, took their baby son and fled with him to Spain. Police there caught him and he was taken back to Germany for persecution.
An example of how police cooperation within the EU works.

As this article is just stressing the culprit's Slavic? ethnicity more than reporting how bad the woman was injured or whatever I just stated I don't really understand whether the article wants me to think about the actual crime or about something else.

Kahn
December 17th, 2016, 11:49 AM
To be more pointed, earlier in this thread I criticised the reporting as failing to inform anything more than a set of prejudices, being counter-productive insofar as reasonable discussion is concerned, if not poisoning debate on the topic. I still believe these things. In connection to that post, and my current stance, I am wondering what information or principals you believe we can extract from the article that might facilitate deeper thought on the issue, if at all there is.

If you don't, that's fine, and we can all agree that the migrant-in-question is nasty and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of German law. But if you do, then you are making a political point and this one would hope you would be forthright about that.

My intention for posting the article was to share a news story about a Bulgarian migrant who, while residing in Germany, assaulted a woman in cold blood, only to flee back to his native country of Bulgaria, in fear of persecution.

Any political speculation I am leaving up to everyone else. Just wanted to share this messed up story about a 'nasty' migrant who assaulted a German woman, and who deserves to be prosecuted under the full weight of German law.

For example, you might agree with me that it serves as a reminder for greater policing co-operation across the EU.

I do.


As this article is just stressing the culprit's Slavic? ethnicity more than reporting how bad the woman was injured or whatever I just stated I don't really understand whether the article wants me to think about the actual crime or about something else.

I don't know why you think that. The article states his migrant status because 1) he is in fact a migrant and 2) he fled the country after committing his crime. Why would an article reporting on the incident ignore these details, and focus primarily on analysis of the video the act was caught on, when an individual can view the video him or herself?

She lands painfully on her face, sprawling on the hard surface, the contents of her handbag scattering across the floor.

The attacker, flanked by three friends, walks back up the stairs and saunters away.

One of his accomplices lingers for a second to retrieve a dropped bottle and then strolls away with the rest.

Not sure how much more of an analysis you need, if you have questions about the video, you can view it yourself. The story is about a migrant who committed a crime and fled the country, knowing full well what he did. Thus, the article was written to convey these details.

Vlerchan
December 17th, 2016, 11:52 AM
Any political speculation I am leaving up to everyone else.
OK :).

Edit:
I just don't understand whether it's another let's hate on migrants article or a crime report.
So far as the as the Daily Mail is concerned, the article fits a pattern of it attempting to demonstrate the supposed criminal tendencies of migrants, especially Slavic migrants, who can access foreign states through EU-mandated freedom of movement law. This falls within a general pattern of hostility towards immigration displayed in the paper's publications. This is especially relevant since whether Britain should continue to accept European migrants, post-Brexit, is still an open question.

The last thing it would also want would be greater police-cooperation across the EU, which would, of course, result in the independence of the British police services being compromised.

Dalcourt
December 17th, 2016, 12:07 PM
In the comments to this article it's said that the victim is from Russia so it makes me wonder whether Germans really exist.


http://www.rbb-online.de/panorama/beitrag/2016/12/u-bahn-schubser-berlin-flucht-bulgarien.html

Sorry it's in German.

Porpoise101
December 17th, 2016, 06:17 PM
1. There should be greater co-operation in policing across the EU.

2. The single sort of contribution that these articles make to the debate is to sharpen prejudices and polarize debates. The facts of one instance are only relevant to the demagogue. Reasonable discussion requires reference to the wide array of data and statistical analysis we have collected, and continue to collect, on the contributions of immigrants to our civil society.

This sort of reporting is, to sum, counterproductive in both facilitating discussion and adequate solutions to the issues immigration raises, if not outright poisonous.
I agree with this sentiment. Individual cases can point us to a problem at best, but don't really give us a clear picture of the scale and scope of issues.

I also agree with the need for more transnational policing. Maybe the EU should get a FBI-like institution to solve problems all over the continent. At the very least, there should be a common database for all of these crimes and criminals.

Dalcourt
December 18th, 2016, 01:17 AM
Update: The guy was arrested by German police at a Berlin bus station. He was still sitting in a bus that just came back from southern France. So I guess catching criminals still works in our world and we aren't all lost yet.

Kahn
December 18th, 2016, 02:18 AM
Update: The guy was arrested by German police at a Berlin bus station. He was still sitting in a bus that just came back from southern France.

Fantastic news! Source?

Dalcourt
December 18th, 2016, 02:35 AM
https://www.welt.de/politik/article160394142/Fahnder-verhaften-Berliner-U-Bahn-Treter-noch-im-Reisebus.html

Again sorry the article's in German. But since I understand a couple of foreign languages I tend to read news in the original language.

Kahn
December 18th, 2016, 02:37 AM
https://www.welt.de/politik/article160394142/Fahnder-verhaften-Berliner-U-Bahn-Treter-noch-im-Reisebus.html

Again sorry the article's in German. But since I understand a couple of foreign languages I tend to read news in the original language.

WŁnderbar, thank you very much. Google Translate is a wonderful thing, though it does get things wrong often and makes things sound funky on a regular basis.

Glad the criminal has been apprehended.