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Voice_Of_Unreason
December 8th, 2016, 05:43 PM
I saw something like this on Reddit the other day and I thought it would be an interesting addition to our own forums. The premise is simple, share a viewpoint of yours that is more in common with those on the other side of the political spectrum. For example, you identify as a liberal but support gun rights, or a conservative who supports bigger government. Those kind of things. Be sure to state what you identify as, be it hardcore conservative, softcore conservative, middle, softcore liberal, hardcore liberal; just to give us a bit of context. If you don't see yourself as a conservative or a liberal, but middle ground, then you can share your most liberal opinions and most conservative ones.

This is somewhat similar to the "Reform Trump" thread, but is instead focusing on the broader political spectrum rather than one man. On the Reddit page this was pretty popular, and I feel it would let us find some similarities among us we didn't know exist. I am also doing this to encourage people to do some free thinking and form their own opinions instead of following perceived norms for them. Feel free to post multiple times if you can think of something else.

I will go first:

Standing: Hardcore Conservative

Viewpoint from the Other Side: I believe that we should look into alternate energy sources and lessen our dependence upon oil and coal. Having a diverse range of energy resources would allow us to better survive scarcities of a certain resource, as we are not entirely dependent on them. Certain resources could also be more cost effective than oil/coal in the long run and allow for America to be energy independent.

StoppingTom
December 8th, 2016, 05:53 PM
I'm a liberal, but I believe private businesses (provided they don't have a stranglehold on their market) have the right to refuse service to whoever they want.

candorgen
December 8th, 2016, 06:13 PM
I saw something like this on Reddit the other day and I thought it would be an interesting addition to our own forums. The premise is simple, share a viewpoint of yours that is more in common with those on the other side of the political spectrum. For example, you identify as a liberal but support gun rights, or a conservative who supports bigger government. Those kind of things. Be sure to state what you identify as, be it hardcore conservative, softcore conservative, middle, softcore liberal, hardcore liberal; just to give us a bit of context. If you don't see yourself as a conservative or a liberal, but middle ground, then you can share your most liberal opinions and most conservative ones.

This is somewhat similar to the "Reform Trump" thread, but is instead focusing on the broader political spectrum rather than one man. On the Reddit page this was pretty popular, and I feel it would let us find some similarities among us we didn't know exist. Feel free to post multiple times if you can think of something else.

I like the idea a lot!

- - - - - - - -

Standing Viewpoint: Left / Liberal


Outlying Viewpoint #1: Being a victim of a harm is not independent of your outlook/etc of it. I mean that victimhood is (mostly, not entirely) a phenomenon in the far-left and especially in left-wing extremism - you either amplify to a degree of exaggeration you being a victim because of an event/situation, and/or you create a self-image of victimhood that is based off no external harm. You make problems which tend to get maintained by them functioning as a buffer against some insecurity you have.

I am not saying that being a victim is determined only by your outlook (otherwise e.g. PTSD would not be a thing at all), not near that even. I am saying though that we have a capacity to create problems where there originally were none. Overall, we are partly in control of what happens to us.


Outlying Viewpoint #2: It's greatly more reasonable to think there is something common to / 'responsible for' all of the world/existence, than not to think so. Relativism cannot do it all, not all in and of the world is determined/determinable by the self.


Outlying Viewpoint #3: Drumpf won the US presidential election of 2016. If you have protested against the result without protesting against the system in general, it shows you to metaphorically (or literally, if you add the victimhood) to be a bad loser.

Also, if you were considering suicide directly because of the Drumpf result, then you really need to re-examine yourself and your mindset...


Outlying Viewpoint #4: There is nothing about democracy that necessarily says it works best with a liberal society or vice-versa. We also should not be entitled to our own socio-politically-relevant opinions without having them tested in some way (debating, dialectic chat, etc).


I predict I'll come back for more later sometime. :D

Porpoise101
December 8th, 2016, 06:39 PM
Me: I am a Liberal, but not extreme

Outlying view #1: I think there must be more discipline in daily life. People need high expectations and politeness again.

Outlying view #2: Harsher punishments

Outlying view #3: I support the maintenance of a large military and I am more hawkish

bentheplayer
December 9th, 2016, 12:12 AM
I find it really difficult to identify with any side of the political spectrum as my views on specific issues can probably easily form the entire spectrum... I would say that may views are usually extremely situational based and hopefully pragmatic.

Flapjack
December 9th, 2016, 02:08 AM
I am very progressive and could only find one outlying view.

I had to google conservative opinions to find one I agreed with so this is copied from google.

Respect ownership and private property rights. Eminent domain (seizure of private property by the government–with compensation to the owner) in most cases is wrong. Eminent domain should not be used for private development.

Vlerchan
December 9th, 2016, 12:56 PM
Liberal-center.

Corporation Taxation should be abolished. The incidence of taxation broadly rests on labour and it's consequences are negative for the middle-class otherwise.

The Income Taxation Schedule should be flattened. Otherwise the disincentive to work grows as income rises. It should also - in general - be as low as feasible - and it's preferable that tax relief is offered on savings.

For Capital Gains Taxation the optimal rate is ~10%. This is just empirical fact. Liberals need to get over themselves.

The government shouldn't subsidies Third-level Education with direct cash transfers. It fails to secure it's main social goal of enabling those at a socioeconomic disadvantage at attending higher education. Funds could be more efficiently allocated to preschool education.

There should be no restrictions on International Trade - Except in certain well-defined and specific circumstances (eg. arms). It's long-run, net welfare enhancing. Though there should be some attempt to redistribute the gains towards those that lose out.

Nationalism should be cultivated in a People. It breaths life into national communities; which otherwise would devolve into a den of pettiness, jealousies and strife.

Hyper
December 9th, 2016, 03:28 PM
But what do I do if I support the common sense party? (Yeah I know very relative and all)

And since when do people form their political points based on whatever labeled box they fit into? I thought people form their own opinions?!

Ohh silly me... I forget how the world works sometimes...

Vlerchan
December 10th, 2016, 12:07 PM
And since when do people form their political points based on whatever labeled box they fit into? I thought people form their own opinions?!
People do. But the likelihood of someone holding one opinion conditional on them holding some set of opinions is non-zero and significant given that ideological opinion itself correlates with certain attitudenal predispositions*.

Issue with claiming to represent 'common sense' is because deep-seated axiomatic differences affect out conception of what 'common sense' politics represents. Political goods - Equality, Efficiency, etc. - are typically incommensurable.

---

* I'm agnostic as to whether opinion leads from attitude or both are the consequence of some shared underlying. There's evidence for both. I'm not bothered to carryout the requisite research to determine which side is stronger.

Dalcourt
December 10th, 2016, 04:51 PM
Standing : liberal and maybe what is in the USA already considered left-wing
Viewpoint from the Other Side : There isn't really much the only I really might not share with other liberals is the view on abortion. I don't see many cases that justify it. Apart from that I can't really think about anything.

ThisBougieLife
December 11th, 2016, 12:03 PM
Standing : liberal and maybe what is in the USA already considered left-wing
Viewpoint from the Other Side : There isn't really much the only I really might not share with other liberals is the view on abortion. I don't see many cases that justify it. Apart from that I can't really think about anything.

Same.

Standing: Center-Left, Left-Leaning Moderate

Opposing Viewpoint #1: I do not agree with most of the pro-abortion arguments I've heard. I'm not sure if I would agree with it being made illegal (at least not a blanket ban on it) as this would lead to more dangerous "back alley" abortions, but I could only see it being justified in a very small minority of cases.

Opposing Viewpoint #2: I don't agree with most "SJW" positions, if these people can be said to represent the left. I find their entire function is to make mountains out of molehills and that they do a great disservice to the left. I am very strongly pro-free speech and I'm amazed at the way today's liberal college students support so much censorship and stifle debate. Freedom to disagree, yes, but not freedom to shut down and punish those who say what you disagree with.

Opposing Viewpoint #3: I'm outspokenly critical of Islam and do not view all religions as equal. I get tired of the "religion of peace" apologist nonsense.

Kahn
December 17th, 2016, 02:19 AM
Standing: American Nationalist, Isolationist, Independent

Outlying Viewpoint: I realize that we could never thrive, let alone survive, were we to completely abandon global relations. I desire a reduction in our coercive presence around the globe, and I desire a reduction in foreign influence on our government, both private and public. I'm all for intricate diplomacy, trade alliances, and working together for the benefit of humanity in the areas of ethics reform and scientific research.

brandon9
December 17th, 2016, 09:30 AM
Stance: Moderate (almost Right-Wing) Conservative Republican

I have to agree with PlasmaHam about the energy sources. Our environment is critical to the survival of both mankind and other species around the globe, and we just hurt ourselves by relying too much on fossil fuels and the like. Eventually they will run out, and when they do, we are going to be quite screwed if we don't find a sustainable alternate solution now.

Personally, I live 20 miles from a nuclear power facility, and I think that (in spite of the danger of a meltdown or the low likelihood of an attack on the facility) we should look into nuclear power a lot further. But I also think solar power should be harnessed to a much larger degree, as well as implementing things like wind turbines. We just need to expand our horizons on how we get energy.

Vlerchan
December 17th, 2016, 10:53 AM
I have said before that I think it's conservatives with a penchant for environmentalism stand to be the ones who advance the goals of enviormentalist in the coming century. For whatever reason, Liberals have taken an all or nothing approach (seen in the recent voting-down of carbon taxation in Washington State, for example). It's worse still that Liberals don't want to consider taxation, which is much more efficient that the equivalent regulations.

So, I do hope, in the future, we will see a Republican programme where an increase in the carbon tax will fund a decrease in federal income tax. That would present both short-run and long-run net-positive gains. Though, whilst hopeful, it would be a lie to claim I am optimistic.

Kahn
December 17th, 2016, 11:18 AM
I suppose I should add that while I am a light skeptic of climate change (aware it is happening but not sure how involved humanity is), I am all for the research and development of alternative energy.

Voice_Of_Unreason
December 17th, 2016, 03:35 PM
This is unrelated to my previous post regarding energy resources, but I am very skeptical about hydraulic fracking. While I'm not one of those that think fracking will cause earthquakes or mass outbreaks of some fatal disease, I do feel there is evidence that fracking can pollute the ground water supplies. As such I do not support the use of hydraulic fracking until more research is done to quantify the possible hazards of it.

Porpoise101
December 17th, 2016, 06:58 PM
I have said before that I think it's conservatives with a penchant for environmentalism stand to be the ones who advance the goals of environmentalist in the coming century.

I am not sure in the US, but I agree that this may be the case in Europe. Even those right wing populist movements usually call for the preservation of the environment.

So, I do hope, in the future, we will see a Republican programme where an increase in the carbon tax will fund a decrease in federal income tax. That would present both short-run and long-run net-positive gains. Though, whilst hopeful, it would be a lie to claim I am optimistic.

Lol it will be at least a decade maybe until the Republicans decide to actually impose a tax and take non-conservation related environmental issues seriously. And to tax carbon? No way that will happen anytime soon seeing that they are friends with fossil fuel interests.

I do think that the Republicans tend to be supportive of issues relating to natural resource conservation and land preservation. This is because their electorate often include outdoorsmen who grow up near nature.

--------
Another viewpoint which is different:
In my experience, liberals have little attention to detail when it comes to history. I personally think it is valuable to have a complete understanding, but I often get the impression that many on the left really only care about the late 20th century and Hitler.

brandon9
December 17th, 2016, 08:31 PM
On an added note about the environmental stuff, and I don't claim to know exactly how much of this might be left-aligned because I just haven't researched it or paid much attention, but we seriously need to enact some worldwide conservation efforts for endangered species. I'm fairly seclusionistic in nature, I don't like a lot of ties to foreign countries and wish the US would become much more domestic-focused, but I fully support the idea of worldwide scientific collaboration, and really wish a good program would get going about protecting animals that are in danger. Whether or not mankimd chooses to admit it, and not to put too fine a point on it, we have SERIOUSLY fucked a lot of species through our tenure on this planet. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd like for my children to at least have a chance of being able to see a polar bear, lion, tiger, what have you, in their lifetime instead of turning on a National Geographic program telling how they went extinct due to loss of territory and illegal poaching.

And for God's sake, stop the fucking Japanese whaling fleet. Anyone else watch the show Whale Wars back in the day? Not at all attempting to be racist or anything, but Asian countries/cultures really do have some questionable points regarding their practices when it comes to certain animals (I.e. shark fin soup). Just saying, probably should crack down on that a bit.

Porpoise101
December 18th, 2016, 11:53 AM
And for God's sake, stop the fucking Japanese whaling fleet.
Agreed. Japan, Norway, and Iceland still whale for some reason. There's no need to do it anymore for the people in these places. It's not as if they depend on whales to live or make candles or whatever.

NewLeafsFan
January 8th, 2017, 04:54 AM
I am a Liberal. I agree with all Liberal ideologies.

However, I find it very discouraging that most Liberals are not hardcore. Most of us are very wishy-washy. That i disagree with.