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Falcons_11
December 5th, 2016, 06:13 PM
President-Elect Trump accepted a congratulatory phone call from Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen. Since the USA hasn't had diplomatic relations with Taiwan since 1979 when it recognized China, does this signal a change in US-Chinese relationship under the Trump administration? Or, was this just a misstep by Trump and his advisers?

Voice_Of_Unreason
December 5th, 2016, 10:37 PM
I really don't see how accepting a phone call from a democratically elected leader is the worse thing in the world, just the media blowing this way out of proportion. What is especially weird, is that the same people criticizing Trump also praised Obama for casually talking to the murderous late dictator of Cuba.

Vlerchan
December 6th, 2016, 05:49 AM
I really don't see how accepting a phone call from a democratically elected leader is the worse thing in the world, just the media blowing this way out of proportion. What is especially weird, is that the same people criticizing Trump also praised Obama for casually talking to the murderous late dictator of Cuba.
Your relations with China matter. Your relations with handful of CubanAmericans (who don't even vote Democrat) don't.

This is realpolitiks.

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It also isn't the media. You have a large number of people from international relations think tanks condemning the choice.

... does this signal a change in US-Chinese relationship under the Trump administration?
Pence referred to the Taiwanese leader as president twice in a followup interview. I'm starting to think this shift is deliberate. It seems like Trump's team believe that the leverage amounting from China's economy crumbling outdoes the leverage that China might have from holding 1 billion or so in United States debt.

Flapjack
December 6th, 2016, 03:28 PM
I really don't see how accepting a phone call from a democratically elected leader is the worse thing in the world, just the media blowing this way out of proportion. What is especially weird, is that the same people criticizing Trump also praised Obama for casually talking to the murderous late dictator of Cuba.
Compared to everything else Trump has done, no this really isn't that bad but it does show that he is a moron that can't think ahead. The issue wasn't the phone call, it was upsetting the Chinese.

StoppingTom
December 6th, 2016, 05:39 PM
Having a phone call in itself isn't the problem.

Diplomacy, is a fickle and fragile thing, and this is quite like his talks with the Pakistanis. On the surface, it seems like (nor should it be) a big deal to say you'll visit the country (Pakistan) or accept congratulations (Taiwan). However, he did both of these conversations with no briefing beforehand, and had he been (or paid attention, if he actually had been) he wouldn't have said those things. Saying you'll visit Pakistan isn't a bad thing, but India reads the news too, and they'll say, "Why aren't we being visited? Is the US (openly) supporting Pakistan over us?" and that can bite us in the butt down the road.

In the case of Taiwan, we didn't recognize them as a country since 1979, and for good reason. It put us in better graces with China (compared to how they were beforehand) as they grew into a superpower. Now, I don't know if Trump just didn't put any thought into the phone call (likely, and honestly understandable for someone who hasn't dealt with foreign diplomats) or he thinks the Chinese economy is in such a state that he could talk to the Taiwanese without any repercussions. Either way, inadvertently or intentionally recognizing Taiwan really has no point to it. It's nowhere close to becoming a global (or even major Asian) presence, and it just pisses off the Chinese (a major world player).

tl;dr pay attention during ya briefings ya doof

Porpoise101
December 6th, 2016, 08:06 PM
I am supportive of the shift to ROC, because the thing is, long-term we really don't need the PRC. We can just shift to manufacturing things in Vietnam, India, and other Southeast Asian nations. This is timely because I am pretty sure that labor costs are increasing over in the PRC. Anything that weakens PRC without hurting us is a good thing in my book. And PRC pretty much gets triggered when you say things like Tibet, Human Rights, Republic of China, autonomy, two-Chinas, etc. They depend on us and we depend on them, and unless we do something to disturb that balance, we can prod each other as much as we want.

However, the thing that worries me is that this troll move was not calculated by Trump as it should have. If the only good foreign policy decision he made was by accident, then it's a worrying sign.

Uniquemind
December 7th, 2016, 04:31 AM
I am supportive of the shift to ROC, because the thing is, long-term we really don't need the PRC. We can just shift to manufacturing things in Vietnam, India, and other Southeast Asian nations. This is timely because I am pretty sure that labor costs are increasing over in the PRC. Anything that weakens PRC without hurting us is a good thing in my book. And PRC pretty much gets triggered when you say things like Tibet, Human Rights, Republic of China, autonomy, two-Chinas, etc. They depend on us and we depend on them, and unless we do something to disturb that balance, we can prod each other as much as we want.

However, the thing that worries me is that this troll move was not calculated by Trump as it should have. If the only good foreign policy decision he made was by accident, then it's a worrying sign.

Trump does not do good calculation. He's very off-the-cuff bravado, kinda personality and it's that aspect of his personality that got him such appeal during the primaries and the general election, especially by red-state voters who share a lot of that same personality trait.

They don't like or trust the "intellectual" college types, they interpret wise long-term calculations a leader would do on the world stage, as "weakness" because they don't see immediate results, and therefore that ripples into biannual and 4-year presidential election results.

George W. Bush, had a similar problem where he made choices off-the-cuff cowboyish behavior too (aka: act first, think and deal with aftermath later).


Imho Trump gravely miscalculated his power plays, and as a leader you only get so many of those aces. This is why he concerns me and he might start things in motion he can't stop to the mass populaces suffering.

candorgen
December 8th, 2016, 03:39 PM
Drumpf could be doing far better with the Chinese in diplomacy, even though I like that he did what he did. Not impressed by some media source in China calling him and his team-to-be all pigs because of it though.

A move for formality in the wrong direction by one party and a rash reaction of lack of formality by another. An example of what interesting stuff is to come? (Take 'interesting' in a dark humour way if you want, it still applies.)