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View Full Version : Trump University Case Settle For 25 million


mattsmith48
November 19th, 2016, 11:27 AM
President-elect Pussy Grabber as settle the Trump U case for 25 millions. In a normal country like, any other country in the western world, shouldn't someone doing that big of a fraud do jail time?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/us/politics/trump-university.html?_r=0

ImCoolBeans
November 19th, 2016, 01:58 PM
The President doesn't go to jail for fraud, silly.

PlasmaHam
November 19th, 2016, 03:09 PM
There is nothing illegal or unethical about settling a dispute out of court. I'm afraid you don't realize that this issue has nothing to do with the judicial process of a country.

To answer your question, someone sued Trump, but dropped the charges after an out of court settlement. There isn't some government conspiracy here, out of court settlements happen all the time, especially when you don't want to deal with a lengthy and pricey trial.

Vlerchan
November 19th, 2016, 03:49 PM
The best thing about this is that:
Liberals can now never claim that the Paula Jones trial is irrelevant because it didn't get to court.
Conservatives can't ever claim that Bill settling outside of court is an admission of guilt.
But, of course, both will try.

ImCoolBeans
November 19th, 2016, 06:53 PM
There is nothing illegal or unethical about settling a dispute out of court. I'm afraid you don't realize that this issue has nothing to do with the judicial process of a country.

To answer your question, someone sued Trump, but dropped the charges after an out of court settlement. There isn't some government conspiracy here, out of court settlements happen all the time, especially when you don't want to deal with a lengthy and pricey trial.

I think you slightly missed the point of the post. I believe the OP is saying "shouldn't somebody go to jail for committing fraud?" not "settling a case out side of court is fraud"

Porpoise101
November 19th, 2016, 09:52 PM
Usually there is no jail time. I think there is only jail if it is against people deemed 'particularly vulnerable'. But usually there's a settlement or payment for damages for this kind of thing.

However, this isn't the end of Trump's legal trouble. His business ties may violate ethics laws unless he severs ties with his companies. Some even say that they could violate the Emolument Clause (http://www.heritage.org/constitution#!/articles/1/essays/68/emoluments-clause) as he has received many gifts and presents from foreign dignitaries.

As Vlerchan mentioned above for the Trump U situation, there already has been a lot of hypocrisy shown in this newer one. Conservatives are turning a blind eye and Liberals are really showing an interest in the Constitution.

mattsmith48
November 19th, 2016, 11:08 PM
The President doesn't go to jail for fraud, silly.

The fact he's president shouldn't matter, he did something wrong he should pay the consequences

There is nothing illegal or unethical about settling a dispute out of court. I'm afraid you don't realize that this issue has nothing to do with the judicial process of a country.

To answer your question, someone sued Trump, but dropped the charges after an out of court settlement. There isn't some government conspiracy here, out of court settlements happen all the time, especially when you don't want to deal with a lengthy and pricey trial.

There is something illegal and unethical about frauding thousands of people with a fake university

Stronk Serb
November 21st, 2016, 07:37 PM
The fact he's president shouldn't matter, he did something wrong he should pay the consequences



There is something illegal and unethical about frauding thousands of people with a fake university

Yeah but both sides settled for up-front payment to the tricked stidents to avoid thebcostky and long period. You could say he got punished. The outcome would ne similar if the tricked students decided to sue him. Except they could wait for years, habe to pay for lawyers and have to pay for the legal procedure.

mattsmith48
November 22nd, 2016, 10:07 AM
Yeah but both sides settled for up-front payment to the tricked stidents to avoid thebcostky and long period. You could say he got punished. The outcome would ne similar if the tricked students decided to sue him. Except they could wait for years, habe to pay for lawyers and have to pay for the legal procedure.

The settlement is more giving back the money he stole than a punishment for stealing the money.

Vlerchan
November 22nd, 2016, 11:37 AM
The settlement is more giving back the money he stole than a punishment for stealing the money.
It was a civil trial. That's all the plaintiffs were ever entitled to.

mattsmith48
November 24th, 2016, 09:12 AM
It was a civil trial. That's all the plaintiffs were ever entitled to.

No criminal trial? Isn't that a crime?

PlasmaHam
November 24th, 2016, 10:17 AM
No criminal trial? Isn't that a crime?

This level and type of fraud is not typically a criminal offense. The Trump University case only involves a handful of people, so it is relegated to civil court trial. If this was some nationwide fraud involving hundreds or thousands of people and if there was a stronger case then this would fall under criminal fraud. But this is not that.

If someone is found "guilty' in civil court for fraud, they will have to pay around 75% of the apparent lost back to the plantiff. I'm not sure what the total claimed losses was in the Trump case, but they decided to drop the case when offered 25 million by Trump. Thus, even if the court did find Trump University to be fraudulent, he would basically do the exact same thing you are criticizing him for, pay up the money, no criminal charges or jail time.

It is pretty obvious why he paid up now instead of possibly doing it after the trial. He already has a handful of problems with picking new government officials, transferring his business to his kids, deciding on policy, and getting a smooth transition to the presidency in January. Civil courts are often infamous for taking up a large amount of time and money, so it was easier for both sides to settle outside of court. Thus Trump has effectively admitted guilt, or atleast has paid the consequences if he was found guilty. This is why I say this is not the government conspiracy you keep saying it is.

Vlerchan
November 24th, 2016, 10:36 AM
No criminal trial? Isn't that a crime?
Criminal fraud requires a higher burden of proof and I imagine it wasn't brought against Trump because prosecutors didn't believe that burden was being met. The burden of proof in a civil trial is just the balance of probilities.

This level and type of fraud is not typically a criminal offense.
I don't believe that the size if the fraud materially matters. Though I could be wrong being as I only ever studied fraud in the context of civil law.

Civil courts are often infamous for taking up a large amount of time and money[.]
This is because defendants typically make it their business to file stall-charges. Trump did this a lot in the lead up Trump University trial date. Being as the date was set though I can't imagine it would have taken up much more time - though I agree that Trump was correct to settle it - he has more important things to be doing.

mattsmith48
November 24th, 2016, 03:15 PM
This level and type of fraud is not typically a criminal offense. The Trump University case only involves a handful of people, so it is relegated to civil court trial. If this was some nationwide fraud involving hundreds or thousands of people and if there was a stronger case then this would fall under criminal fraud. But this is not that.

If someone is found "guilty' in civil court for fraud, they will have to pay around 75% of the apparent lost back to the plantiff. I'm not sure what the total claimed losses was in the Trump case, but they decided to drop the case when offered 25 million by Trump. Thus, even if the court did find Trump University to be fraudulent, he would basically do the exact same thing you are criticizing him for, pay up the money, no criminal charges or jail time.

More than 5,000 people across the country who paid Donald Trump $40 million to teach them his hard sell tactics got a hard lesson in bait-and-switch. New York Atty. Gen. Eric Schneiderman



It is pretty obvious why he paid up now instead of possibly doing it after the trial. He already has a handful of problems with picking new government officials, transferring his business to his kids, deciding on policy, and getting a smooth transition to the presidency in January. Civil courts are often infamous for taking up a large amount of time and money, so it was easier for both sides to settle outside of court. Thus Trump has effectively admitted guilt, or atleast has paid the consequences if he was found guilty. This is why I say this is not the government conspiracy you keep saying it is.

I never said its a conspiracy im just asking why someone who does something like this is not doing any jail time.

Criminal fraud requires a higher burden of proof and I imagine it wasn't brought against Trump because prosecutors didn't believe that burden was being met. The burden of proof in a civil trial is just the balance of probilities.

Makes sense, but how much evidence do they need? From what we've eared for the past year on Trump university, Im sure they have prosecuted people for fraud for less than what Trump did.

I don't believe that the size if the fraud materially matters. Though I could be wrong being as I only ever studied fraud in the context of civil law.

The size of the fraud only matters when it gets to deciding how much jail time.