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Cjmccjface
November 8th, 2016, 01:33 AM
About anything to do with the election.
Trump or Clinton?
Political Arguments not allowed.

Flapjack
November 8th, 2016, 11:30 AM
Anything to do with the election but no political arguments.... that rules out a lot of what we could possibly talk about xD

Mars
November 8th, 2016, 11:33 AM
Both candidates can suck my ass. However, I would choose Clinton over Trump for president any day.

Flapjack
November 8th, 2016, 11:35 AM
One candidate scares me and the other depresses me sooo I'm not really hyped for this election XD

devotionnel
November 8th, 2016, 11:46 AM
I feel bad for America hah

The Byrd
November 8th, 2016, 03:13 PM
Today's the day that we make America great again!

Ragle
November 8th, 2016, 03:29 PM
Today's the day that we make America great again!

You too? :D


I expect America to choose the better fool as president.

The Byrd
November 8th, 2016, 03:32 PM
You too? :D


I expect America to choose the better fool as president.

The Donald is no fool.

mattsmith48
November 8th, 2016, 03:38 PM
I feel bad for America hah

The term limit thing, not the smartest thing that country came up with.

Jinglebottom
November 8th, 2016, 03:39 PM
I sorta feel like staying up all night just to keep up with the elections. I probably won't though lol. I'll regret it in the morning.

Ragle
November 8th, 2016, 03:40 PM
The Donald is no fool.

You know, in some way that's a politcal statement. :D


anyway, a good reason not vote for Donny Boy. So Clinton it is.

Flapjack
November 8th, 2016, 03:40 PM
The term limit thing, not the smartest thing that country came up with.
Tbh the term limit is clever, avoids a President becoming like Putin (although he had his term limit removed) tbh the dumb thing is that Clinton and Trump were chosen in the primaries xD

mattsmith48
November 8th, 2016, 03:55 PM
Tbh the term limit is clever, avoids a President becoming like Putin (although he had his term limit removed) tbh the dumb thing is that Clinton and Trump were chosen in the primaries xD

There is more to Russia's dictatorship then a lack of term limit, I agree it helps to prevent it, but its not the only factor. As far as I know I don't think most European coutries do not have term limit, we don't have any here, it as lead to shitty politicians being in power for far too long, but it almost never lead to dictatorships.

Flapjack
November 8th, 2016, 03:57 PM
There is more to Russia's dictatorship then a lack of term limit, I agree it helps to prevent it, but its not the only factor. As far as I know I don't think most European coutries do not have term limit, we don't have any here, it as lead to shitty politicians being in power for far too long, but it almost never lead to dictatorships.
very true!! But look at it on the flip side.... at least we're guaranteed to be rid of Clinton/Trump in 8 years xD

mattsmith48
November 8th, 2016, 04:39 PM
very true!! But look at it on the flip side.... at least we're guaranteed to be rid of Clinton/Trump in 8 years xD

I've said it a few times I don't think whoever wins this thing will not win again in 4 years, unless Clinton as a drastic move to the left.

Flapjack
November 8th, 2016, 04:41 PM
I've said it a few times I don't think whoever wins this thing will not win again in 4 years, unless Clinton as a drastic move to the left.
I dunno would Clinton have to face another primary? If I recall correctly Obama didn't but I can't remember why he didn't?

mattsmith48
November 8th, 2016, 04:45 PM
I dunno would Clinton have to face another primary? If I recall correctly Obama didn't but I can't remember why he didn't?

Most of the time they don't, but I think they could, if example they thought she had no chance to win the 2nd term, or the party weren't happy with what she had done in her 1st term. Not 100% sure tho.

Paraxiom
November 9th, 2016, 05:39 AM
A good illustration of the socio-political forces flowing through the realm, mostly hidden before to most (which is not necessary, if one looks hard enough) and recently mutated into a more interesting and dangerously potent form.

The changes from these forces are not finished at all, they have instead begun, methinks.

Stronk Serb
November 9th, 2016, 08:01 AM
Trump won, a crisis in the Middle East and with Russia is averted. A serious one which could result in nuclear exchange.

Typhlosion
November 9th, 2016, 08:10 AM
Tbh the term limit is clever, avoids a President becoming like Putin (although he had his term limit removed) tbh the dumb thing is that Clinton and Trump were chosen in the primaries xD

Although according to the leaked emails Clinton had to win the primaries :l

Good thing she didn't win. I was Kasich > Bernie > Clinton but then the leaks changed my mind so...

*sigh* Go Trump.

Hyper
November 9th, 2016, 08:33 AM
Trump won, a crisis in the Middle East and with Russia is averted. A serious one which could result in nuclear exchange.

I'm glad he did.

Shillarys desire to start a war with Russia would've left my country as a wet stain along with the small number of US troops in it.

Paraxiom
November 9th, 2016, 08:35 AM
Trump won, a crisis in the Middle East and with Russia is averted. A serious one which could result in nuclear exchange.

War? Yes.
A nuclear one? No.

Hyper
November 9th, 2016, 08:52 AM
War? Yes.
A nuclear one? No.

Of course not a nuclear one.

Just a war where the US & Russia fight through their proxies.

So every country close to Russia with US military forces in it, gets fucked, nothing would happen on US soil and probably nothing would happen on Russian soil, that's why it is so easy for ignorant madmen and dipshits to talk about war and advocate for it, it wouldn't affect them and they have not a single clue what it means to be in one.

Is Trump racist? I don't know - saying that illegal immigrants who are latinos or whatever are a problem does not = racism. As long as he means ''economic problem''. I could care less, there is hardly any racism in the west anyway.

Does he hate women? No he is just a jock type buffoon - doesn't mean he hates them.

I'd be more worried as an American about his ''plans'' budgetwise, there was a website I checked out awhile ago that compared the plans of candidates and their possible costs... Trump plan put you Americans in another 11 trillion in debt, not sure how great or viable that is, not like the debt matters all that much but yeah those are the things I'd be worried about as an American.

Rather than the left/whatever the fuck these people are shrieking about racism & misogyny.

And my post wasn't a rant entirely @ you Para :P

Paraxiom
November 9th, 2016, 09:07 AM
Of course not a nuclear one.

Just a war where the US & Russia fight through their proxies.

I held the view that it was more likely for the US with Clinton to have either a questionably-proxy or non-proxy war with Russia, actually.

I go with it too that it could happen with Trump, though his at least apparent good-standing with Putin and vice-versa greatly reduces the possibility of that. Nevertheless there is Trump's daring trend of saying what he wants when he wants, so I'm not confident either way and hold to my prediction anyway.


So every country close to Russia with US military forces in it, gets fucked, nothing would happen on US soil and probably nothing would happen on Russian soil, that's why it is so easy for ignorant madmen and dipshits to talk about war and advocate for it, it wouldn't affect them and they have not a single clue what it means to be in one.

Agreed.


Is Trump racist? I don't know - saying that illegal immigrants who are latinos or whatever are a problem does not = racism. As long as he means ''economic problem''. I could care less, there is hardly any racism in the west anyway.

I think he is, and I doubt that there is hardly any racism in the west, but I'm not getting into another debate on that (because things do not change that much by the end).


Does he hate women? No he is just a jock type buffoon - doesn't mean he hates them.

I don't think he hates women either, but I don't think he treats them well, put it that way...


I'd be more worried as an American about his ''plans'' budgetwise, there was a website I checked out awhile ago that compared the plans of candidates and their possible costs... Trump plan put you Americans in another 11 trillion in debt, not sure how great or viable that is, not like the debt matters all that much but yeah those are the things I'd be worried about as an American.

Good luck to the economy with him around.


Rather than the left/whatever the fuck these people are shrieking about racism & misogyny.

Well...


And my post wasn't a rant entirely @ you Para :P

I figured quickly.

Hyper
November 9th, 2016, 09:11 AM
I wouldn't worry about Russia doing anything because of someone saying something mean.

What Putin & the oligarchs that own him do is based purely on strategy, some of that strategy might seem illogical to people that don't understand what Russia is like and has been like historically but there is very little ideology at play there.

I'd love to see some rants/debates about racism in the west but meh I can hardly partake seeing as I live in Eastern Europe, which is still almost 100% homogenous.

Paraxiom
November 9th, 2016, 09:14 AM
I wouldn't worry about Russia doing anything because of someone saying something mean.

I didn't mean that in itself.


What Putin & the oligarchs that own him do is based purely on strategy, some of that strategy might seem illogical to people that don't understand what Russia is like and has been like historically but there is very little ideology at play there.

I can generally agree, and that is why I think Putin likes Trump. Both have been highly manipulative with the populace's perceptions of the world.


I'd love to see some rants/debates about racism in the west but meh I can hardly partake seeing as I live in Eastern Europe, which is still almost 100% homogenous.

Alright.

Porpoise101
November 9th, 2016, 10:38 AM
I have a hope that the Electors go against the will of the people, but I recognize that it's highly unlikely because they are spineless people hand picked by the party. Not limited to the fact that there are penalties for doing that in a few States.

Hopefully the Dems get a wave effect election in their favor in 2020 and that gerrymander ALL the districts to favor the Dems. That and demographics. I can only imagine this is the peak of the Republican party unless the US devolves to some authoritarian government.

ThisBougieLife
November 9th, 2016, 10:55 AM
At this point I'm hoping Trump does win the popular vote because at least then I can accept that the people chose him. If he loses it, I'll be bitter for a long time...

Flapjack
November 9th, 2016, 11:05 AM
His victory speech was bloody amazing!! Obviously I am not a Trump supporter but if he means what he said in that speech about working with both Democrats and Republicans and getting along with 'every country' then I am slightly optimistic that the end of the USA did not begin today.

That said however, this is the same man that is not trusted with a twitter account so no doubt someone behind the scenes wrote the speech and told Trump what to do but yeah I am glad that is the message he is pushing!!! I expected hate speech tbh so yeah :')

Periphery
November 9th, 2016, 11:36 AM
The Donald is no fool.

The Donald still thought Belgium was a city

Paraxiom
November 9th, 2016, 02:12 PM
His victory speech was bloody amazing!! Obviously I am not a Trump supporter but if he means what he said in that speech about working with both Democrats and Republicans and getting along with 'every country' then I am slightly optimistic that the end of the USA did not begin today.

That said however, this is the same man that is not trusted with a twitter account so no doubt someone behind the scenes wrote the speech and told Trump what to do but yeah I am glad that is the message he is pushing!!! I expected hate speech tbh so yeah :')

It is the biggest set of big promises that I've ever heard of in one speech.
It sounds nice and relaxed. It is very disturbingly nice and relaxed.


The Donald still thought Belgium was a city

It's worthy of a spoof news title now.

PlasmaHam
November 9th, 2016, 02:30 PM
It is the biggest set of big promises that I've ever heard of in one speech.
It sounds nice and relaxed. It is very disturbingly nice and relaxed.
It is a rather striking change from campaign Donald Trump, but I don't believe it is entirely out of character for him. His campaign was based upon anger with the current system, anger the establishment politicians. That got him support, so he stressed that aspect of his character. Now that he is elected, there is no more need to pursue the "angry Trump" persona, at-least to the extent of his campaign. If Trump plans to do what he said, like Immigration and Obamacare reform, then he would need cooperation with others in Washington. He will still probably be out spoken, but I do expect this kind of Trump to be more common.

That's just my theory though, so don't harp on me if I am wrong about it, which I might very well be.

DVDan19
November 9th, 2016, 03:53 PM
Of course not a nuclear one.

Just a war where the US & Russia fight through their proxies.

So every country close to Russia with US military forces in it, gets fucked, nothing would happen on US soil and probably nothing would happen on Russian soil, that's why it is so easy for ignorant madmen and dipshits to talk about war and advocate for it, it wouldn't affect them and they have not a single clue what it means to be in one.


That war will never be fought because it won't be through their proxies (aka European NATO members). It won't be fought because Trump assures that if Europe doesn't pay (so much) more for NATO, the USA would go out from this organization. We, countries of Europe, do not have the intention to pay and we are already starting to create a European army, or even increasing the European Union's strength in prevision to this.
So since we won't have any obligations with the United States for military, we would be totally safe from Russia since they want, as much as we want, mutual cooperation (mostly economic). Russia would never declare war to Europe, it would be pure madness for both of us, and the retreat of USA's military from Romania, Poland, the Baltic States or Turkey will significantly increase our relations with them.

Anyways, if Trump makes America to quit NATO, you and your best friend Canada will be on your own with a Cold-War 2 since Russia and USA are not crazy enough to fight on their own territories. Yes in Europe we have more interests in cooperating with Russia than the USA nowadays (especially when we sadly comported ourselves as puppet states of the USA even though we largely have the possibilities to be a major Super Power)

So, when everybody here in Europe (and in the world) sees your elections as catastrophic, our leaders see the perfect occasion to reinforce Europe and to make us all more united !

Thanks !

Paraxiom
November 9th, 2016, 06:04 PM
It is a rather striking change from campaign Donald Trump, but I don't believe it is entirely out of character for him. His campaign was based upon anger with the current system, anger the establishment politicians. That got him support, so he stressed that aspect of his character. Now that he is elected, there is no more need to pursue the "angry Trump" persona, at-least to the extent of his campaign. If Trump plans to do what he said, like Immigration and Obamacare reform, then he would need cooperation with others in Washington. He will still probably be out spoken, but I do expect this kind of Trump to be more common.

I think his campaign self did have anger in it, but the majority of his actions were strategic.

If he keeps this new persona of relaxed intent of bringing people together for his plans, then I expect that to be another strategy.

It's possible that his campaign self is, in comparison to his 'presidential self', a manipulative clickbait to get enough traction to win. He might be completely different from now on, and that will have the same effect of confusing/mystifying many people along with bringing along a large set of followers. That will be confirmed/unconfirmed soon.


That's just my theory though, so don't harp on me if I am wrong about it, which I might very well be.

I'm drawing speculations mostly as well for what comes now.

Hyper
November 9th, 2016, 09:22 PM
That war will never be fought because it won't be through their proxies (aka European NATO members). It won't be fought because Trump assures that if Europe doesn't pay (so much) more for NATO, the USA would go out from this organization. We, countries of Europe, do not have the intention to pay and we are already starting to create a European army, or even increasing the European Union's strength in prevision to this.
So since we won't have any obligations with the United States for military, we would be totally safe from Russia since they want, as much as we want, mutual cooperation (mostly economic). Russia would never declare war to Europe, it would be pure madness for both of us, and the retreat of USA's military from Romania, Poland, the Baltic States or Turkey will significantly increase our relations with them.

Anyways, if Trump makes America to quit NATO, you and your best friend Canada will be on your own with a Cold-War 2 since Russia and USA are not crazy enough to fight on their own territories. Yes in Europe we have more interests in cooperating with Russia than the USA nowadays (especially when we sadly comported ourselves as puppet states of the USA even though we largely have the possibilities to be a major Super Power)

So, when everybody here in Europe (and in the world) sees your elections as catastrophic, our leaders see the perfect occasion to reinforce Europe and to make us all more united !

Thanks !

That European Army talk is a joke.

I like your blue eyed optimism... But that's not the way the world works - and regardless of the US provoking Russia, even if the US forces would leave from Poland & Baltics, it wouldn't stop Russias aggressions and desire to ''imperialise''.

That wont happen until Russia returns to democracy, no idea if that will ever happen again though :/

Stronk Serb
November 10th, 2016, 02:32 PM
I hope Trump can strongarm Republican party control from the establishment.

phuckphace
November 10th, 2016, 03:59 PM
CB4DhylQR14

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: German moving company commercial

more accurate than they intended, especially the new name "Das Weiße Haus" http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png

Microcosm
November 10th, 2016, 05:00 PM
The shift in political views of America is very intriguing. Typically democratic states went Trump and it was one of the most surprising results this country has seen in a long time.

This is one of the most devisive elections as well. There is are at least 59 million Americans who likely believe their next president to be horrific. Not just bad, but terrible and revolting. It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to unify these people with him, but it might be impossible considering that many Dems were literally in tears for their country after this election.

Also it will be interesting to see if people actually start migrating to Canada. The evidence in favor of that prediction is that the Canadian immigration website crashed right after Trump's victory was assured and that people have been joking about it for over a year. Other than that, it's pretty unlikely.

What really scares me is that Republicans control the House, the Senate(to a large degree) and the presidency. They can get so much done now it is unreal. Queue abortion ban and anti-climate regulations.

Vlerchan
November 10th, 2016, 05:08 PM
Speaking of getting stuff done.

The S&P 500 financial sector .SPSY surged 3.70 percent to its highest since the 2008 financial crisis, bringing its gain since Trump's surprise victory in Tuesday's election to 7.9 percent, its biggest two-day gain since 2011.

Trump has sided with leading conservatives in calling for the repeal of the 2010 Dodd-Frank Financial Reform Act largely opposed by banks.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKBN1351FV

Man of the People.

phuckphace
November 10th, 2016, 08:36 PM
the Canada thing is funny because although Canada is a decent enough place outside of the Muslim-overrun cities, you can't just waltz into citizenship without some sort of marketable skill.

Immigration officer: it says here you have five years of experience in...er...."blogging (Tumblr)"...do you have any actual skills?
Millennial: WHAT'S A "SKILL", CAN IT FIT IN MY ASS??

Falcons_11
November 10th, 2016, 11:06 PM
Donald Trump's victory last Tuesday is proof that the American political does work and the underdog can sometimes be a winner.

lliam
November 11th, 2016, 12:31 AM
works!!

a very rich underdog, indeed.
so, as usual, money rules again.

Flapjack
November 11th, 2016, 05:26 PM
Tbh after Trump's victory speech I am optimistic and tbh there is a very good chance he will end up being better than Clinton xD

One thing I will say is that the Republicans cannot use the victory to justify a 'mandate' as they did not get the popular vote and speaking of which, I understand when the founding fathers were deciding stuff the electoral college makes sense but today I think the popular vote should decide who wins. This does not just apply to the US however, countries like the UK have a similar system.

Vlerchan
November 11th, 2016, 05:33 PM
Tbh after Trump's victory speech I am optimistic and tbh there is a very good chance he will end up being better than Clinton xD
Would you mind telling me where he beats her in terms of policy?

[...] countries like the UK have a similar system.
The UK is first past the post - which is quite different to what the electoral college entails.

Flapjack
November 11th, 2016, 05:56 PM
Would you mind telling me where he beats her in terms of policy?
Well he claims to be opposed to TPP, the wall seems to be downgraded to a fence which Clinton supported and he promised to protect the LGBTQ community. He has also promised to work with the democrats and bring people together. I have heard many theories about how he was just riding the hate in the US to get into office but did not mean what he said as after all he does have a reallyyy long record of lying to people.

As for actual policies, if he does the stuff he promised in the race then obviouslyyyy it would be terrible but as I said, I am optimistic that he will change a lot.

If he actually gets money out of politics I will be ecstatic ngl xD

I would also like to say that I think activism is more important than actually voting in a way. Now Trump is in power, the left is united against him and put pressure on him and hopefullyyyy in 2020 there will be a better democratic candidate like Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.

So yeah I am optimistic :')

Paraxiom
November 11th, 2016, 06:10 PM
I hope Trump can strongarm Republican party control from the establishment.

That may be difficult with a good proportion of the GOP being against Trump, along with the GOP being questionably not the establishment already.


CB4DhylQR14

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3: German moving company commercial

more accurate than they intended, especially the new name "Das Weiße Haus" image (http://i.imgur.com/Ci6vdDb.png)

I happily admit it's ingenious.


the Canada thing is funny because although Canada is a decent enough place outside of the Muslim-overrun cities, you can't just waltz into citizenship without some sort of marketable skill.

"the Muslim-overrun cities"

Seriously?


Immigration officer: it says here you have five years of experience in...er...."blogging (Tumblr)"...do you have any actual skills?
Millennial: WHAT'S A "SKILL", CAN IT FIT IN MY ASS??

You do love to hate tumblr.


I'm not sure how Canada became relevant anyway, though you can clarify if you want.


Speaking of getting stuff done.

The S&P 500 financial sector .SPSY surged 3.70 percent to its highest since the 2008 financial crisis, bringing its gain since Trump's surprise victory in Tuesday's election to 7.9 percent, its biggest two-day gain since 2011.

Trump has sided with leading conservatives in calling for the repeal of the 2010 Dodd-Frank Financial Reform Act largely opposed by banks.http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKBN1351FV

Man of the People.

Great! :)


Tbh after Trump's victory speech I am optimistic and tbh there is a very good chance he will end up being better than Clinton xD

One thing I will say is that the Republicans cannot use the victory to justify a 'mandate' as they did not get the popular vote and speaking of which, I understand when the founding fathers were deciding stuff the electoral college makes sense but today I think the popular vote should decide who wins. This does not just apply to the US however, countries like the UK have a similar system.

Well he claims to be opposed to TPP, the wall seems to be downgraded to a fence which Clinton supported and he promised to protect the LGBTQ community. He has also promised to work with the democrats and bring people together. I have heard many theories about how he was just riding the hate in the US to get into office but did not mean what he said as after all he does have a reallyyy long record of lying to people.

As for actual policies, if he does the stuff he promised in the race then obviouslyyyy it would be terrible but as I said, I am optimistic that he will change a lot.

If he actually gets money out of politics I will be ecstatic ngl xD

I would also like to say that I think activism is more important than actually voting in a way. Now Trump is in power, the left is united against him and put pressure on him and hopefullyyyy in 2020 there will be a better democratic candidate like Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.

So yeah I am optimistic :')

Where do you stand with Trump directly, aside from what he indirectly will help?

I would not be expecting his victory speech to change your viewpoint on him so much as to have him be now directly favourable to you, if that is what you are implying with your recent comments.

- - - - - - - -

[From now on I am doing to say Drumpf instead of Trump, partially for humour value.]

Vlerchan
November 11th, 2016, 06:23 PM
Well he claims to be opposed to TPP[.]
Didn't we go through this before? To take a leaf from your book, do you want me to go retrieve the effort-post I wrote so you can respond to it.

[...] the wall seems to be downgraded to a fence which Clinton supported[.]
In other words, no factor that would make him better. Though, you will need to point me to where the Wall has been specifically denounced.

[...] he promised to protect the LGBTQ community[.]
He's going to nominate Conservative judges who won't be fans of same-sex marriage.

Unless you mean he's going to ban Muslims, or something.

Though, this also doesn't make him better than Clinton. This makes him, at best, the same.

He has also promised to work with the democrats[.]
The next sentence after this is literally 'he does have a reallyyy long record of lying to people.'

I have heard many theories about how he was just riding the hate in the US to get into office but did not mean what he said as after all he does have a reallyyy long record of lying to people.
Theories. I was hoping for concrete reasons that he is better than Clinton.


If he actually gets money out of politics I will be ecstatic ngl xD
His transition team is staffed with top professional Lobbyists.

The judge's he's putting forward are the sort that are going to maintain Citizen's United, that landmark case on lobbying that Liberal's hate.

Now Trump is in power, the left is united against him and put pressure on him and hopefullyyyy in 2020 there will be a better democratic candidate like Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.
Yeah, this isn't a reason that he is better than Clinton.

Flapjack
November 11th, 2016, 06:38 PM
Where do you stand with Trump directly, aside from what he indirectly will help?

I would not be expecting his victory speech to change your viewpoint on him so much as to have him be now directly favourable to you, if that is what you are implying with your recent comments.

- - - - - - - -

[From now on I am doing to say Drumpf instead of Trump, partially for humour value.]
Noooooooooooooo if that is how it come across please know I still think Trump is a disaster!! I am just optimistic is all because I do feel like the Trump that won is different to the Trump that is campaigning. I was surprised by Trump's victory speech as I was expecting a message of hate and fear. I also really did not like Clinton so I was bound to be disappointed with this election either way. I still however think that Trump is a moron as showed by all the bankruptcies and interviews where he shows his horrific lack of knowledge on world affairs and of course I think he may end up being exposed as the next Bill Cosby.

I am optimistic that Trump might not be a disaster and I hope he won't change things too much, that is still not what I want however. I want progressive change but not even my optimistic attitude can believe Trump could achieve that xD


In other words, no factor that would make him better. Though, you will need to point me to where the Wall has been specifically denounced.

It hasn't been denounced buddy, but I doubt it would happen because Republican lawmakers are suggesting alternate plans and Mexico reaffirms that they won't pay for it.
z-qFc27kIFg&t=123s

As for the rest of your post illustrating how he is surrounded by establishment pro-corporate people, yeah I know that buddy and that is why before the election I was saying how his plans to get money out of politics etc etc were BS.

I do not support Trump, I am just clinging onto the little hope that speech gave me xD

Posts merged. Use the multi-quote button please. ~Amethyst_

Paraxiom
November 11th, 2016, 08:53 PM
Noooooooooooooo if that is how it come across please know I still think Trump is a disaster!! I am just optimistic is all because I do feel like the Trump that won is different to the Trump that is campaigning.

If you think that Drumpf and/or his strategies are different to in his campaign, then you're not alone. I'm strongly suspecting it as well.


I was surprised by Trump's victory speech as I was expecting a message of hate and fear. I also really did not like Clinton so I was bound to be disappointed with this election either way.

I'm similar.


I still however think that Trump is a moron as showed by all the bankruptcies and interviews where he shows his horrific lack of knowledge on world affairs and of course I think he may end up being exposed as the next Bill Cosby.

Hopefully the legal challenges against him are fruitful. Part of me expects that Drumpf will not do well for the reasons you've said as well, but we shall see.


I am optimistic that Trump might not be a disaster and I hope he won't change things too much, that is still not what I want however.

With the current geopolitical environment inside and outside the US, along with the power shown in the populism fuel for Drumpf's campaign, I think that things will significantly change.

It would be nice that he won't be a disaster.


I want progressive change but not even my optimistic attitude can believe Trump could achieve that xD

A wise position.


It hasn't been denounced buddy, but I doubt it would happen because Republican lawmakers are suggesting alternate plans and Mexico reaffirms that they won't pay for it.
z-qFc27kIFg&t=123s

As for the rest of your post illustrating how he is surrounded by establishment pro-corporate people, yeah I know that buddy and that is why before the election I was saying how his plans to get money out of politics etc etc were BS.

I do not support Trump, I am just clinging onto the little hope that speech gave me xD

What is your view on his meeting with Obama?

I found it to be extremely awkward and shockingly incommensurable with what each said of the other in the past. Drumpf apparently said a 'great man' of Obama at the end, which absolutely transcends continuity with him once saying he was at least indirectly a 'founder of ISIS'. It is a very strong example of political language that is of polite appearance over actual action, which I hope people will see.

PlasmaHam
November 11th, 2016, 11:29 PM
I have decided to show a bit more sympathy to those who think Trump will be awful. Believe it or not, I actually have a heart, and hearing this constant dismay is starting to eat away at it. To help you get over the election of a womanizing, nationalistic, outsider, controversial, Republican TV star winning the presidency, I have decided to post a quote of the first womanizing, nationalistic, outsider, controversial, Republican TV star to win the election, Ronald Reagan!
Presidents come and go.
History comes and goes,
But principles endure.
Now, depending on how you see Reagan, this might just be making things worse for you. But I hope you will get past your irrational dislike of the greatest president of the last 50 years(no, that isn't up for debate, it is a FACT!:P Which isn't saying much when you look at the other presidents of the last 50 years, including Trump.:() The meaning behind this quote, is to say that even though presidents come and go, America will continue on.

This aura of sadness and placing blame on everyone from the media to the electoral college to the "Whitelash" is not helping. Trump is president, and there is nothing you can do about it. Democracy has run its course, and America choose Trump, for better or worse. Attempts to disrupt this process which has existed for 227 years will just result in mass riots and possible armed insurrection against the government. Instead of trying to counter the passing of power that comes with democracy, just accept what has happened and instead look towards the future.

Right now, Trump is a relative unknown in terms of policy, so some fear and caution is justified. However, we must still remember that the same system that elected Trump also prohibits him. There is no way the Constitution or the other branches of government will allow Trump to enact any of these human rights violations or other acts of tyranny. Say what you might about Republicans, they do defend a traditional interpretation of the Constitution, which is very much against government over reach and tyranny.


As for your fears that Trump will impose a very Conservative set of values, I would not be too worried. On social-issues, Trump is very much a moderate, and I expect him to become more of a moderate as time goes on. I see nothing to suggest that Trump will attempt to undermine current gay marriage and LGBT+ protections. His immigration stance has become considerably more lenient, with his current stance being strengthening the border and focusing on deporting criminal illegal aliens. It is very doubtful that Trump will enact the full deportation he talked of, and I don’t even know about the wall now. I also see nothing to suggest that Trump will somehow promote race-related violence, especially to the level of Obama. I feel that Trump will pursue a traditional Republican attitude of dismissing the identity politics and pandering that encourages race violence. On the topic of abortion, Trump will probably preserve his pro-life views, and encourage stricter abortion guidelines, but I don’t see him as a threat to Roe vs. Wade.


I could go on, but you should get the point. Just go and read what Trump supports, instead of absorbing everything the media shoves at you. The media’s unspoken job is to manipulate emotions, and right now they are doing a pretty good job at this. Just google Trump’s stances, and calm your heart. He may not be your preferred candidate, but he is not the herald of the apocalypse.

(I am awful at inspirational and supportive writing, so don’t be surprised if you come out angrier after you read this than before. That’s why I normally stick to making fun of liberals, so much easier:D But really, I am disturbed by the amount of pessimism and honest fear here. I really do hope that y'all will see that the amount of paranoia that comes from something honestly as minor to your personal lives as a presidential election is very unhealthy and unwise.)

https://www.askideas.com/media/48/America-Is-So-Progressive-That-8-Years-After-Electing-Their-First-Black-President-Funny-Donald-Trump-Meme-Picture.jpg
:D I thought some of you progressives would find this funny.;)

Zenos
November 12th, 2016, 12:06 AM
Both candidates can suck my ass. However, I would choose Clinton over Trump for president any day.

Oh yeh what with the Bengazi incident in which she knew the shit was gonna go down and did nothing and when being investigated claimed it wasn't her problem,and who had the email scandal going on! Oh but it'zs totally ok to have a CRIMINAL in office.

Personally feel Trump is the right person for the job

Barbara.
November 12th, 2016, 10:31 AM
Yea the whole campaign and election was a big joke and comedy show.

Vlerchan
November 12th, 2016, 10:35 AM
I'm not sure if American's care about what is happening to the Mexican economy at the moment, but in short just the expectations are murdering the Peso and it's stocks. I recall, a while ago, explaining how helping the Mexican economy succeed was a strong, long-term strategy to eliminating illegal immigration.

The inverse is also true, whilst the natural growth of illegal Mexican immigration is reversing at the moment (emigration > immigration), as the Mexican economy slides - as it will with Trump in control of American trade and immigration policy, it's not difficult to imagine that reversing (more Mexicans arriving, less Mexicans going home).

mattsmith48
November 12th, 2016, 10:44 AM
Now, depending on how you see Reagan, this might just be making things worse for you. But I hope you will get past your irrational dislike of the greatest president of the last 50 years(no, that isn't up for debate, it is a FACT!:P Which isn't saying much when you look at the other presidents of the last 50 years, including Trump.:() The meaning behind this quote, is to say that even though presidents come and go, America will continue on.

Ronald Reagan? Isn't that the guy who almost eliminated the middle class with his stupid tax plan, losing negociation with terrorists giving them what they want, selling weapons to enemies of the US and terrorist, and increase the military budget in the hope Russia would engage in his dick measuring contest?

This aura of sadness and placing blame on everyone from the media to the electoral college to the "Whitelash" is not helping. Trump is president, and there is nothing you can do about it. Democracy has run its course, and America choose Trump, for better or worse. Attempts to disrupt this process which has existed for 227 years will just result in mass riots and possible armed insurrection against the government. Instead of trying to counter the passing of power that comes with democracy, just accept what has happened and instead look towards the future.

I agree, people have the right to be angry for whatever reason, when Trump said he will not accept the result of the election, everyone was saying it's childish and crazy, you can't do that. Now those same people are not accepting the result of the election, you guys aren't better then him and in 4 years when he gets crushed you can't say he can't say the election was rigged and he as to accept the result of the election. If your pissed because she got more votes, but she still lost fine, but you had 16 years to fix this make sure it didn't happen again. If you want to move here fine we have room, jobs, health care and soon pot for everyone, but you have to accept that your stupid country elected this monster and it's going to be President Pussy Grabber in power for the next 4 years.

I'm not sure if American's care about what is happening to the Mexican economy at the moment, but in short just the expectations are murdering the Peso and it's stocks. I recall, a while ago, explaining how helping the Mexican economy succeed was a strong, long-term strategy to eliminating illegal immigration.

The inverse is also true, whilst the natural growth of illegal Mexican immigration is reversing at the moment (emigration > immigration), as the Mexican economy slides - as it will with Trump in control of American trade and immigration policy, it's not difficult to imagine that reversing (more Mexicans arriving, less Mexicans going home).

Good thing Mexicans don't need visas anymore to enter Canada.

Mars
November 12th, 2016, 11:11 AM
Oh yeh what with the Bengazi incident in which she knew the shit was gonna go down and did nothing and when being investigated claimed it wasn't her problem,and who had the email scandal going on! Oh but it'zs totally ok to have a CRIMINAL in office.

Personally feel Trump is the right person for the job

1. You have to have been prosecuted and found guilty for a crime in order to be a criminal. It was confirmed by the FBI that there was no scandal or top secret information shared (or at least none that would endanger America or her citizens)

Also, if we're going on that note, Trump has yet to release his tax returns, has a history of bankruptcy and hiring employers from out of country and who hire illegal immigrants, has been sued more times than I can count, has been accused of sexual assault several times even before the election, and has repeatedly said idiotic and bigoted things. Hell, he's disrespected veterans and the disabled. I'm ashamed that more people aren't disgusted and think this is normal and okay behaviour.

Also, please refrain from bashing others and keep this thread mostly on topic.

Vlerchan
November 12th, 2016, 11:18 AM
Isn't that the guy who almost eliminated the middle class with his stupid tax plan[.]
No, you're thinking of the desktop computer.

PlasmaHam
November 12th, 2016, 01:26 PM
I found this video on my forays through some independent online news sources. Probably the best explanation video I could find on why Trump won, minus the cursing. This is a video by a liberal who does not like Trump, and is focused towards liberals, so you should start to see what really caused the Trump victory, and why these leftist protests are just securing his position.
GLG9g7BcjKs
Here is probably the crowning quote of the videoThe left is responsible for this result because the left have now decided that any other opinion, any other way of looking at the world is unacceptable. We don’t debate anymore because the left won the cultural wars. So if you’re on the right, you’re a freak. You’re evil. You’re racist. You are stupid. You are a basket of deplorables. How do you think people are going to vote if you talk to them like that? When has anyone ever been persuaded by being insulted or labeled?

phuckphace
November 12th, 2016, 01:55 PM
like I keep saying it was YUGE mistake on the part of the Dems to stab Bernie in the back and ignore the equally YUGE counter-populist opportunities there. but they just had to have a Clinton in the White House, and Clinton happens to be drowning in her own elitist hubris.

for fuck's sake, she wasted valuable campaign time and resources whining about PEPE THE FROG. a fucking Internet meme triggered her into having another mini-stroke. this would be funny but I'm simply unable to laugh about it, quite frankly it just pisses me off that someone this inept and overly-sensitive got as close as she did to the Presidency.

I don't think Clinton will be alive by 2020, and if she is she'll be an invalid unable to run. what do you think the Dems will do, take notes and nominate someone like Sanders or Jill Stein? very doubtful after seeing the depth of their inner-party stupidity - they'll push another elitist Clintonian bureaucrat who will openly sneer at the white proles (UGH DIE ALREADY YOU BIGOTS!! VIVA LA REVOLUCION!) and get rekt by the Drumpfabteilung once again. you heard it here first.

Vlerchan
November 12th, 2016, 02:27 PM
[quoting someone else:] The left is responsible for this result because the left have now decided that any other opinion, any other way of looking at the world is unacceptable. We don’t debate anymore because the left won the cultural wars. So if you’re on the right, you’re a freak. You’re evil. You’re racist. You are stupid. You are a basket of deplorables. How do you think people are going to vote if you talk to them like that? When has anyone ever been persuaded by being insulted or labeled?
I agree with this.

If people have noticed that in the last 18 months I have chased down liberal posters with a lot more tenacity than I have conservatives, it's exactly this reason.

PlasmaHam
November 12th, 2016, 11:46 PM
Here is some interesting election related news I have just discovered. This being at the state level.

Democrats now only control the legislatures of 13 states. This may not seem important, but it could actually point to something major. A Constitutional Convention requires the vote of 2/3's of state legislatures(or 2/3's of Congress, but that isn't relevant), and the ratification of a Constructional Amendment requires 3/4's vote. Currently, 38 state legislatures are needed to pass a Constitutional Amendment. Put two and two together and you realize that if the Democrats lose one more state, then the Republicans would have enough power to ratify a Constitutional Amendment without a bipartisan effort. Who knows if that will happen, just food for thought.

Democrats also now only have a trifecta (full governor/house/senate control) in 5 states, while Republicans have 24. That is one less for Democrats, while the Republicans strengthen their control. On state Governors, Republicans now have a nearly 100 year record high of 34 (possible 35, depending on yet to be decided NC race.)

Democrats having this little power at the state level hasn't been seen since the Reconstruction era. And this is actually worse than that considering that there are 15 more states now. For Democrats, this is continuing the decade long trend of Republicans gaining leaps and bounds at the state level. The South, who 50 years ago was almost completely Democrat ruled, is as of this election completely Republican majorities. It appears that the Trump campaign helped the GOP, but the trend is still against the Democrats, and if they continue to lose at the state level like they have been, then there could be major political shakeups.

We could say that state level control is especially important now, since Trump has shown a much larger anti-Federalist attitude that Obama and most other modern presidents.

phuckphace
November 13th, 2016, 12:39 AM
PlasmaHam - reaching that far back into history isn't really useful because back then the Democrats were 14/88 WHITE POWER (hence the South being their historical stronghold) and the Republicans were "wow just wow, separate water fountains?! it's LITERALLY 1930 you bigots" (the latter of which, funnily enough, has come around once again as the party was taken over by dorky pseudocons like Jeb Bush).

it remains to be seen if this new supermajority will hold together or if the pseudocons in the party will start their usual backstabbing.

Vlerchan
November 13th, 2016, 11:29 AM
[...] dorky pseudocons like Jeb Bush [...]
The most disheartening outcome of this entire election is that the Sanderistas and the Trumpistas have managed to effectively turn the centre-ground into a place for bores and dorks, at least in the minds of their own voters.

phuckphace
November 13th, 2016, 03:25 PM
The most disheartening outcome of this entire election is that the Sanderistas and the Trumpistas have managed to effectively turn the centre-ground into a place for bores and dorks, at least in the minds of their own voters.

unfortunately, demographics is a non-negotiable factor that the party ignores at its own peril - a Hispanic plurality today is a left-wing super-majority tomorrow (How to Win Elections 101, page 1). the GOP owes 100% of its recent cascade of victories to the Trumpenkrieg - had Jeb Bush been the party nominee, I and millions of others would've stayed home and the outcome would've been a sweep by Clinton. again, she won the popular vote thanks in no small part to the ever-increasing non-white electorate.

that Jeb Bush apparently believes sincerely that the Latinos can be pandered to as a group with any success is even more of a joke than his own personal dorkiness and pocket turtles. outside of a very small handful of naturalized immigrants who despise their illegal coethnics and genuinely value being Americans, it's a waste of time.

because it's 2016, recognizing these demographic realities instantly puts you in the far-right regardless of how moderate you actually are otherwise. former centrists who recognized this have already defected - this means that remaining die-hard centrists are categorically in denial about what future we'll get with the electorate that we have, and in my eyes this is deserving of all the mockery and disdain we can muster. that, and Jeb had a very Clintonian M.O., which was to haplessly blow millions upon millions of donorbux when a perfunctory glance at voting patterns by ethnic bloc would've told him all he needed to know and for free.

tl;dr - the GOP was pulled from the brink of permanent self-initiated extinction by Trump.

Vlerchan
November 13th, 2016, 04:03 PM
the GOP owes 100% of its recent cascade of victories to the Trumpenkrieg - had Jeb Bush been the party nominee, I and millions of others would've stayed home and the outcome would've been a sweep by Clinton.
Trump got almost 600,000 popular votes less than Romney and 5,000,000 less votes than Obama. Polling, as much as we can trust it, predicts he would have handily beaten Clinton by upwards 10%.

I'm skeptical of there being some Trump-effect.

]because it's 2016, recognizing these demographic realities instantly puts you in the far-right regardless of how moderate you actually are otherwise.
Most people self-report the economy and unemployment as their top issues, with less than 10% reporting immigration. With Trump, he won most people over on grounds of the economy (self-reported again). Whilst that is beholden to some amount of reporting-bias - people being less honest about seeing immigration as an issue, etc. - I would imagine it is broadly true.

But I'm more talking about the complete rejection of careful policy analysis, on both the right and the left - re: Sanders - that one would hope for when it comes around to an election.

Trump made a lot of people feel good about themselves. In particular because he promised them an economy that even if it could sustainably exist is going to be automated in a decade or two. But broadly-speaking because he promised that he could deliver the cake and let them eat it too.

If that's the electorate, centrism is surely dead.

Paraxiom
November 14th, 2016, 04:11 PM
The most disheartening outcome of this entire election is that the Sanderistas and the Trumpistas have managed to effectively turn the centre-ground into a place for bores and dorks, at least in the minds of their own voters.

A sign of more intensely polarised socio-politics in the future?

I found this video on my forays through some independent online news sources. Probably the best explanation video I could find on why Trump won, minus the cursing. This is a video by a liberal who does not like Trump, and is focused towards liberals, so you should start to see what really caused the Trump victory, and why these leftist protests are just securing his position.
GLG9g7BcjKs
Here is probably the crowning quote of the video

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!

ON POINT.

I'd put that quote in my signature if I could!

(It so happens I'm already a subscriber of that channel since it was not significantly popular yet, but I did not have a lot of time recently to see his video there, before here - (website priorities)).


like I keep saying it was YUGE mistake on the part of the Dems to stab Bernie in the back and ignore the equally YUGE counter-populist opportunities there. but they just had to have a Clinton in the White House, and Clinton happens to be drowning in her own elitist hubris.

You're right - Sanders and his populism was a far better candidate against Drumpf than Clinton tried to be.


The most disheartening outcome of this entire election is that the Sanderistas and the Trumpistas have managed to effectively turn the centre-ground into a place for bores and dorks, at least in the minds of their own voters.

A sign of more intensely polarised socio-politics in the future?

Kahn
November 15th, 2016, 07:19 PM
Sorry I haven't been active y'all, I was having log in issues, work two jobs and go to school. Complicated stuff, believe me.

I just want to say that the election was a dirty process. I believe I am a reasonable person and a political independent at heart, but looking back on the entire debacle, it turned me into a venemous man filled with contempt for those who contested or mocked me for believing what I believe. The mass media's 24/7 anti-Drumpf smear campaign exhausted me and desensitized me to their criticisms. I realize there are many valid criticisms of the man. But I also realize that the media had established the "old white racist, sexist" narrative and they would never drop it. He had a multi-ethnic campaign staff. He had a campaign manager who was a woman, who is now a part of the transition team. She's brilliant.

Anyways, the insults between all the candidates disgusted me. The Access Hollywood tape was ridiculous and the tens of thousands of emails that are still being released related to the Clinton campaign's/foundation's dirty dealings/careless security is incredibly disheartening.

All in all I'm glad it's over. I'm glad Trump won. But now the real work begins, and we're all about to find out if he played us all the fool or if he'll stick to what he's promised he'd do. I'm optimistic for the first time in a long time.

The issues that I was worried about most, which are immigration reform, resurrection of a depleted military, and the destruction of ISIS, are all about to be on the table. I don't agree with his environmental positions. Nor do I like the way he speaks or his history of questionable comments. But I genuinely believe the man loves this country and wants what's best for all Americans. We've got two years of a majority Republican government willing to work with him. Let's see if he walks the walk before we condemn him as the destroyer of America.

I'd also like to take this time to apologize to anyone I may have offended, or been aggressive towards, here and everywhere else, because I've gotten into a lot of intense conversations and insults have been thrown back and forth and I really believe politics shouldn't do that to a person.

Edit: I'm in favor of 90 day election cycles, in consideration of the 24/7 news cycle and how fast we can obtain information. The two year political war that goes on is simply exhausting.

ethan-s
November 16th, 2016, 09:18 AM
I always say that I won't mind if Donald gets elected, I just won't help him get there.

Does that explain my stance?

ThisBougieLife
November 16th, 2016, 11:42 AM
I agree with this.

If people have noticed that in the last 18 months I have chased down liberal posters with a lot more tenacity than I have conservatives, it's exactly this reason.

I agree completely with that quote as well, and that video brings up a lot of valid points and reasons why I am vexed by the Left. (And I am an unapologetic anti-SJW liberal, but how can we expect to have any power when we have this dismissive attitude that would rather shut down debate and discussion than address real issues?)

That said, I can't completely blame her loss on the left's pathetic excuse for discourse considering that Hillary has received over 1 million more votes than Trump, just not from the people whose vote is worth more.

Porpoise101
November 16th, 2016, 05:26 PM
Well it seems I'm in the minority in terms of my autopsy. The election wasn't lost by leftoids spamming the media with "racist." No, it was the fact that they didn't have a cool candidate. While calling out bigotry is perceived as dorky, wimpy, and lame, it does serve a purpose. Diminishing that would be worse in my view. Sure, Clinton elaborated on sexism and racism to an electorate that didn't care. But to say that this was the cause... I'm not confident. Instead the issue is that the Dems were split apart on three fronts. The establishment wanted a centrist who supported their interests. The progressives wanted someone to push harder for change. And conservative parts of the Obama coalition were alienated. With three critical areas of the party in dissaray and only one of them actually satisfied, it's impressive that she did that well. Yet it's still underwhelming because of lower turnouts for them in swing states. All the DNC had to do was nominate someone people didn't hate. That's it. If they did that, they could have easily gotten the 10k votes needed out of cities and suburbs in a few states.

I'm also going to add that the new following Bernie has amassed is going to probably be an annoyance for the party for a while.

ImCoolBeans
November 16th, 2016, 09:42 PM
Let's please keep the flaming at bay in this thread, and treat each other respectfully while debating.

PlasmaHam
November 16th, 2016, 10:59 PM
PlasmaHam - reaching that far back into history isn't really useful because back then the Democrats were 14/88 WHITE POWER (hence the South being their historical stronghold) and the Republicans were "wow just wow, separate water fountains?! it's LITERALLY 1930 you bigots" (the latter of which, funnily enough, has come around once again as the party was taken over by dorky pseudocons like Jeb Bush).
I am well versed in American history, and I am very much aware that the Democrats of the 1800s were the conservative party that basically controlled a post-Civil War disgruntled South. Meanwhile the Republicans were the liberal party that gained prominence after the abolition of slavery and Union victory of the Civil War. The parties didn't really start to switch roles until the mid-20th century. However, the point still stands. Democrats haven't had such lackluster state level control in nearly 150 years, and things are not looking better for them.

brandon9
November 22nd, 2016, 08:49 PM
I for one am glad Trump won, though he was not my first choice - I would MUCH rather have seen Ben Carson elected President. I very much liked Carson and find it a shame he isn't politically minded enough to govern in such a position.

I'm a Republican, have been for as long as I have had opinion about politics and such, but that doesn't mean I blindly support Republicans only; I actually agreed with some points Bernie Sanders made, as well as some of Clinton's. However, Bernie to me was a bit of a joke (not meant to offend it's just my perspective) and I firmly believe Hillary should be in prison. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are neither here nor there since neither had a chance in hell of actually winning. I am happy Trump won because 1) I truly think he is what our country needs right now, someone who is a bit different and out there and willing to cause us as a society to question what it means to be American, and 2) because I believe that he IS going to do his best to fix a lot of shit, from trade to healthcare.

I do not support these mass protests though, I find it frankly to be bullshit. The country spoke, he won the election, accept that or get the fuck out of the U.S. Just my view.

bentheplayer
November 26th, 2016, 03:31 PM
I have kinda given on US elections. It seems that now it is all about who can speak the smoothest lies to win votes. I feel that neither are doing it truely because they want to help your average people. Instead they are all doing to further their own best interest. Just look at congress. The ppl there are just way too disconnected and are all working for those lobbyist of big companies. Once they leave office they get well rewarded for giving speeches or granted cushy director jobs.

For Hillary, using a personal sever is just plain stupid but then again if Snowden could steal all that info its just proves that the current system for handling classified info is not it for purpose. I think this incident kinda killed her chances.

For Trump, the bet on fanning populist ideas and being politically correct helped him win but sooner or later he will have to retreat from stuff he said. I know people have portrayed him as a bigot and stuff but I don't think he would that stupid to do half the stuff he said. He just did what he saw was needed to get office and thats how the biz ppl roll today. Win at all cost. One thing for sure is that he is either pretty ignorant with current protocol for international politics or just trying his luck and use his inexperience as an excuse. His convo to May just made me laugh. He told May, the Brit PM, if you travel to the US you should let me know.

Vlerchan
November 27th, 2016, 07:01 PM
President-elect Donald Trump said that he won the popular vote in the Nov. 8 election if “millions” of illegal votes are excluded, hours after criticizing an effort to recount votes in three battleground states.
“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Trump told his 16 million Twitter followers on Sunday.
Trump offered no evidence to back up a suggestion of massive electoral fraud -- one that returned to his regular pre-election mantra of a “rigged” result.

No comment required.

PlasmaHam
November 27th, 2016, 07:41 PM
"That is horrifying. That is not the way our democracy works. Been around for 240 years. We've had free and fair elections. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on during a general election. I, for one, am appalled that somebody that is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position."
"He said something truly horrifying ... he refused to say that he would respect the results of this election. That is a direct threat to our democracy."
No comment required.

Vlerchan
November 28th, 2016, 04:58 AM
Clinton partaking in the recount procedure is a mere formality. Her camp has offered no indication of believing in it bearing dividends. Conservatives can point to the activist protests if it makes them feel better about their candidates behaviour. But to be quite frank: the Democrats are irrelevant at this stage. Their actions don't matter. Not to mention that a nod to the other kids - who we all recognise as being in the wrong - is not an argument.

The problem here is Trump. His behaviour is unbecoming of a President-elect and if conservatives have an ounce of respect for the process that elected him then there would be attempts to reign him in. That Conservatives are content to point to political irrelevencies - as opposed to muster the courage to engage with with their duties as citizens to hold elected officials to some sort of account - instead confirms the worst of my fears. That this term is going to be defined by a borderline schizophrenic obsession on behalf of conservatives to combat the Democrat that lurks around every corner - the abdication of the legislative duty to hold Trump to account being the consequence.

The aim of politics should be good governance. Sometimes that means sacrificing short-term party cohesion. If that scares you, then you should really start there with your questions there.

lyhom
November 28th, 2016, 11:49 AM
tbh I'm just laughing that he's still complaining about the results that he won lmao

Vlerchan
December 1st, 2016, 09:09 AM
On Wednesday, the Pakistani government released an account of a telephone conversation between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Mr. Trump that sounded, well, Trumpian.

“President Trump said: ‘Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, you have a very good reputation. You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work, which is visible in every way. I am looking forward to see you soon. As I am talking to you, prime minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing, with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor, and I will personally do it. Feel free to call me anytime, even before 20th January, that is before I assume my office.’ ”

“On being invited to visit Pakistan by the prime minister, Mr. Trump said that he would love to come to a fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people. ‘Please convey to the Pakistani people that they are amazing, and all Pakistanis I have known are exceptional people,’ said Mr. Donald Trump.”

While not exactly confirming the content, the Trump transition team did acknowledge the call, as well as one with President Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?_r=0

I laughed reading this. This quote probably sums up my thoughts better than anything I have said so far in this thread.

I'm sure Porpoise101, definitionally, has some thoughts on this.

Paraxiom
December 1st, 2016, 05:19 PM
President-elect Donald Trump said that he won the popular vote in the Nov. 8 election if “millions” of illegal votes are excluded, hours after criticizing an effort to recount votes in three battleground states.
“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Trump told his 16 million Twitter followers on Sunday.
Trump offered no evidence to back up a suggestion of massive electoral fraud -- one that returned to his regular pre-election mantra of a “rigged” result.

No comment required.

I actually prefer that he does this, because it shows come consistency in his pontificating about voter fraud / election rigging. He hasn't just gone quiet since he has won.


No comment required.

Not sure how that adds to the rationale behind Trump's position though.


On Wednesday, the Pakistani government released an account of a telephone conversation between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Mr. Trump that sounded, well, Trumpian.

“President Trump said: ‘Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, you have a very good reputation. You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work, which is visible in every way. I am looking forward to see you soon. As I am talking to you, prime minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing, with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor, and I will personally do it. Feel free to call me anytime, even before 20th January, that is before I assume my office.’ ”

“On being invited to visit Pakistan by the prime minister, Mr. Trump said that he would love to come to a fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people. ‘Please convey to the Pakistani people that they are amazing, and all Pakistanis I have known are exceptional people,’ said Mr. Donald Trump.”

While not exactly confirming the content, the Trump transition team did acknowledge the call, as well as one with President Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?_r=0

I laughed reading this. This quote probably sums up my thoughts better than anything I have said so far in this thread.

I'm sure Porpoise101, definitionally, has some thoughts on this.

I will not lie that this actually reminded me of the most recent time I checked on a main North Korean website [ http://naenara.com.kp/ , has been revamped recently] with the news sections that detail how their leader praises the greatness and good will of this, that, etc.

Trump has also gone somewhat wacko with his comments on punishing those who burn US flags.

Porpoise101
December 1st, 2016, 08:07 PM
I'm sure Porpoise101, definitionally, has some thoughts on this.

Not really, what Trump is saying is pretty much the current US position on Pakistan. The US sees them as a veritable ally, and they are right to see the opportunity Pakistan has. It is a true nation of opportunity if/when they learn to stop being so dysfunctional in their government. The US needs to be buddies with them, considering their strategic location near Afghanistan, Iran, and China. Calling them good is a bit of a stretch however, given they sponsor terrorism in India.

But, what can I say? The Pakistanis have been on the US side, which is why the Indians continue to look to Russia as they have looked to the USSR in the past if push comes to shove. A Russian-Indian axis of power isn't out of the question; this would cement the control over Central Asia which the Russians have wanted for centuries (see: Great Game). More importantly, it would have the effect of putting a check on the China-Pakistan alliance.

PlasmaHam
December 1st, 2016, 10:34 PM
I will not lie that this actually reminded me of the most recent time I checked on a main North Korean website [ http://naenara.com.kp/ , has been revamped recently] with the news sections that detail how their leader praises the greatness and good will of this, that, etc.
Wow, I haven't seen that level of political propaganda and idol worship since that time I visited the DNC's website!:P.

I agree with Porpoise101 on Trump and Pakistan. While Pakistan is often questionable, state sponsored terrorism for example, it could be a very helpful ally. Right now there are two almost entirely dominant powers in that part of the world, Russia and China, neither of which are very supportive of the USA currently. Establishing good economic and political ties between the USA and Pakistan would be a good way for the USA to establish a stronghold in an increasingly tense Asia.

Vlerchan
December 2nd, 2016, 04:16 AM
Calling them good is a bit of a stretch however, given they sponsor terrorism in India.
This was the basis of my point. India is an increasingly important American ally. I think Trump should be looking to cultivate that - and a move like he made in that phone call is likely going to lead to some awkward questioning for him further down the line.

I don't see much hope in a American and Pakistani relationship. It makes much more sense for the Pakistanis to retain their closeness to the Chinese - whose interests just so happen to be broadly opposed to Americas.

Paraxiom
December 8th, 2016, 05:02 PM
Wow, I haven't seen that level of political propaganda and idol worship since that time I visited the DNC's website!:P

Hmmm right. I see what you've probably done here.

NewLeafsFan
January 3rd, 2017, 05:56 AM
I realize that a lot of people turned on Clinton after the email issues. If Trump had been secretary of state do you really think that nothing would have gone wrong?

At the end of the day Clinton has 30 years of experience in public service including being a NY senator for 8 years and secretary of state for 4.

Donald Trump has been taken to court almost 1700 times for refusing to pay workers. Many of them Mexicans.

Trump won the election because he made Americans feel like they were in a bad place economically while Obama increased the GDP 2% per year while he was in office. Clintons campaign was badley mismanaged. And because the electoral college system doesnt work.