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Porpoise101
October 16th, 2016, 04:37 PM
What would it take to make the US collapse? I'm not thinking of invasion or nukes either, I'm talking about social divisions and civil war.

phuckphace
October 16th, 2016, 04:44 PM
progressivism progressing more

mattsmith48
October 16th, 2016, 05:25 PM
Trump becoming president?

Porpoise101
October 16th, 2016, 05:51 PM
I was thinking of economic collapse.

I don't think Trump would do it either, he might in fact make people more united against him.

As for progressivism, not sure how it would really harm the US right now. We have went backwards from the peak progressive era, so we have ways to go until we reach peak proletarian perfection.

mattsmith48
October 16th, 2016, 06:20 PM
I was thinking of economic collapse.

I don't think Trump would do it either, he might in fact make people more united against him.

You don't think Trump would cause an economic collapse? Is tax plan alone would bankrupt the US in months

PlasmaHam
October 16th, 2016, 06:53 PM
You don't think Trump would cause an economic collapse? Is tax plan alone would bankrupt the US in months

I've seen your knowledge of economics, I'm not betting too much on it. I'll sure people said the same about Reagan's similar plans back in the '80's, look at how well that went.

But in all seriousness, please just leave your anti-Trump prejudice in the Clinton-Trump debate. I'm sure everyone here would appreciate a debate not related to the election, so please respect that and keep your opinions where they belong.

Vlerchan
October 16th, 2016, 07:23 PM
On debt.

Since the US prints it's own currency and it's debt are denominated in that currency it can't go bankrupt (it can default on its debt but it won't - that would be definitonally calamitous).

[I cut the portions implicating political figures for the sake of this thread.]

---

I also still haven't come up with a good answer for the thread. I see the great cleavage in U.S. politics as more being rural-urban and race issues happen to be a particular flashpoint for that relationship.

I am leaning more towards a slow decline, with no particular cause, similar to the fate of the Roman Republic.

mattsmith48
October 16th, 2016, 08:19 PM
I've seen your knowledge of economics, I'm not betting too much on it. I'll sure people said the same about Reagan's similar plans back in the '80's, look at how well that went.

Yeah went great... for rich people. Its been proven time after time that Regan's plans don't work. Donald Trump's plan is the most extreme version of trickle down economics and would multiply the debt, eliminate the middle class and destroy the US' economy.

But in all seriousness, please just leave your anti-Trump prejudice in the Clinton-Trump debate. I'm sure everyone here would appreciate a debate not related to the election, so please respect that and keep your opinions where they belong.

Porpoise101 ask a question and I have a good answer.

Porpoise101
October 16th, 2016, 09:24 PM
I've seen your knowledge of economics, I'm not betting too much on it. I'll sure people said the same about Reagan's similar plans back in the '80's, look at how well that went.
Reagan is a mixed bag for me. He had a decent foreign policy at least.

As for his economic policy, he was the one who made massive deficits by cutting taxes and ramping up military spending. Trump's plan would create more deficits, but let's be honest, that thing will never pass in the Congress (which is going to become more Democrat).

Vlerchan brought up an interesting point. We could just slowly decay into a decadent, corrupt, and oppressive society. Yet unlike Rome, we won't really have any 'barbarians' to invade us if things continue as they have been. If things continue to become more anti-war, then the US will not lose any territory. Perhaps they will lose influence, but that is all.

Uniquemind
October 17th, 2016, 03:08 AM
An uneducated, unwise, emotionally or apathetic citizenry, and a decadent and prideful leadership in the 3 branches of government.

You have the right to an opinion, but certain opinions are wiser and should be a driving force for law and policy.

Flapjack
October 17th, 2016, 11:06 AM
Trump xD

Paraxiom
October 17th, 2016, 04:52 PM
Well...

It's a possibility that either election candidate getting into the POTUS seat will result in major riots across most or all states, and there is a lesser possibility that added to this is the national guard's resources being tested in response to such riots. It could happen. Will it fracture the US critically? Not by itself (I, perhaps ignorantly, think it won't), but it could very well do so if coupled with:

Passing of legislation that strictly enforces high levels of civilian gun control. The country is hugely divided by this issue, and I expect that things would get very nasty if every gun-holder/lover is met with new opposition from the law. A civil war could start.

Trump's hypothetical economic 'strategies' could, by themselves, break the US economically. The wall and the magnified military's resource demands would drain the rest of the economy beyond functional capability, even I can predict that (given the cost estimates for the wall, and how much it costs to maintain the US military already).

The country is polarised politically in itself with support for the democratic party or the republican party, without the new added forces of revamped Left and Right political passion on the two sides. Half the country really is not fond of the other half.

Continuing to aggressively oppose Native Americans' positions on things in general will not help either; it won't cause breakdown in itself, but I expect that it adds to the views of people already who do not like the current system. Has anyone heard of what is going on with oil drilling being met with protests over there? Probably not...

More shootings from the police force directed at civilians is another factor, a bigger one. There are already riots going on with that. Mass shootings are a pervasive thing already, of course.

If all of the above occurs at the same time (some already are occurring at the same time), then I expect the US to break down or at least transform via great destruction into a new sort of 'United' States. The US is not as stable as most people would think, not to say that it wouldn't fall apart without a fight with itself to avoid that.

In a sense the USA is its own greatest enemy. It has all the potential for self-destruction.

Flapjack
October 17th, 2016, 05:03 PM
I think time might break the US, what I mean by that is with all the cuts to education and the attacks on the middle and working class the future generations of Americans will be less educated, healthy and so less productive.

Paraxiom
October 17th, 2016, 05:15 PM
I think time might break the US, what I mean by that is with all the cuts to education and the attacks on the middle and working class the future generations of Americans will be less educated, healthy and so less productive.

All things must die, and the greater things have a further path to fall.

Vlerchan
October 17th, 2016, 05:21 PM
Yet unlike Rome, we won't really have any 'barbarians' to invade us if things continue as they have been.
I suppose to make things a little interesting... revisionist Mexico? (I understand it has passed up every opportunity post-Guadalupe Hidalgo.)

[...] what I mean by that is with all the cuts to education and the attacks on the middle and working class the future generations of Americans will be less educated, healthy and so less productive.
I have no idea what 'attacks on the middle-class' means, but there's the obvious question here of whether undermining savings and investment rates - since government intervention to rectify things would require a significant tax hike - would result in greater productivity losses through (1) lower levels of capital deepening, and (2) poorer allocation of scarce resources (transfers from investment to consumption).

It's not obvious what the net of such would be.