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phuckphace
September 27th, 2016, 10:02 AM
what do you guys think of the Christophobia that is rooted deep within the left wing of Western countries like France, the UK, USA and Israel?

Do you believe Christophobia is a thing? Why do you think this?

my Marxist professor told me that Christophobia isn't real because Christianity is bigoted and regressive, unlike Islam. thanks to his thorough reeducation I now understand that Islamic terrorism is not representative of Islam in general, unlike that Catholic guy who bombed an abortion clinic (Catholics are the real terrorists). I think we should allow 911 million more unvetted Muslims into the country and give them Sharia courts, and also anybody who refuses to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple should be fired and publicly shamed for their backwardness. it's the 21st century after all, when will these Bible-thumping white-privileged bigots stop throwing gay people off roofs?!

Mars
September 27th, 2016, 10:12 AM
Christophobia = phobia of Christians?

I'm not scared of Christians. I am kind of scared of what religious extremists (Christians, Muslims, etc.) can do in power, though.

Reise
September 27th, 2016, 10:22 AM
the Christophobia that is rooted deep within the left wing of Western countries like France, the UK, USA and Israel?

rooted deep within the left wing of Western countries like France, the UK, USA and Israel?

like France

France

http://static1.purepeople.com/articles/3/61/23/@/21108-francois-hollande-premier-secretaire-637x0-1.jpg

http://nsa37.casimages.com/img/2016/09/27/160927053758159891.jpg

ThisBougieLife
September 27th, 2016, 10:23 AM
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139138/3136932-i+see+what+you+did+there-700x560.jpg

Yes, any kind of religious-phobia is a thing. (Yet for some reaosn we call Jew-phobia "anti-Semitism", which is confusing as Arabs are Semites too, but I digress). Islamophobia seems to be more prevalent in Western society at the moment, but there are reasons for it. However, I would not consider the recognition that Islamic extremism is much more of a threat than Christian extremism to be "Islamophobia". It's simply reality.

Kahn
September 27th, 2016, 10:35 AM
I'm a Spaghettimonsteraphobic.

lliam
September 27th, 2016, 10:58 AM
Among my kindred such phobias doesn't matter. We've Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and agnostics and atheists in our cosy circle.

Even it's often argued, before God and Marx stands the family.

And a second cousin is living with an angel in sin. But this angel is an Engel with "s" at the end of his name.


As for the rest of tthe heretical world, I once told an atheistic teacher that atheists are just believers.

According to my expierences the more a atheist defends vehemently atheism, the more religious is his behavior.

Therefore, at least to me militant atheists are members of the worldwide spread religious community of Atheism. So, imo, such terms like Christophobia among atheists are in general strongly associated with the smell of religious war.


Not a thing to me, because actually a phobia usually affects just such folks who've a penchant to extreme views of theirs faith.

rioo
September 27th, 2016, 11:00 AM
by the way, Do you think the movie Da vinci code series considered Christopobia ?

Opus dei and self tortures is creepy for me.
In my opinion, hollywood peoples who create Valak in The conjuring movie also Christophobia.

Flapjack
September 27th, 2016, 11:08 AM
How is this deep rooted in the left wing? XD There are plenty of people that hate Christians and just like anyone that hates anyone based on their religion, that is stupid, ignorant and harmful. But I do not believe there is Christophobia deep rooted in the left wing and would love some examples.

The only example I can think of is those in the US who considered some xmas cups a 'war on xmas and Christianity.'

Christophobia = phobia of Christians?

I'm not scared of Christians. I am kind of scared of what religious extremists (Christians, Muslims, etc.) can do in power, though.
I think it is like Islamophobia but with Christians instead :)

Islamophobia = dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

So Christophobia = dislike of or prejudice against Christianity or Christians, especially as a political force.

Posts merged. ~Mars

PlasmaHam
September 27th, 2016, 11:20 AM
I don't think there is outright fear of Christians, not to the point of Islam at least, that is just common sense. I think Christophobia is more similar to homophobia than Islamaphobia(that's a tongue twister.) While there isn't outright fear of the people themselves, there is a fear of the ideology both support. Christianity supports the idea that man is not the utmost authority on morality and knowledge, which contrasts with the ideology that man is the utmost authority and that we know best for ourselves. LGBT+ and similar movements supports the idea that man is the utmost authority, and that humans are given the power to define life and morality, which crashes with the Christian principle that only God has that power. This contrast of ideas is similar to Natural law vs Divine Commandment theory if you know what I mean. Both sides are afraid that the other will begin to supplant their opinion as absolute truth, thus fear creeps in.

So yes, I believe Christophobia exists and is prevalent is many western cultures.

phuckphace
September 27th, 2016, 11:50 AM
I don't think there is outright fear of Christians, not to the point of Islam at least, that is just common sense. I think Christophobia is more similar to homophobia than Islamaphobia(that's a tongue twister.) While there isn't outright fear of the people themselves, there is a fear of the ideology both support. Christianity supports the idea that man is not the utmost authority on morality and knowledge, which contrasts with the ideology that man is the utmost authority and that we know best for ourselves. LGBT+ and similar movements supports the idea that man is the utmost authority, and that humans are given the power to define life and morality, which crashes with the Christian principle that only God has that power. This contrast of ideas is similar to Natural law vs Divine Commandment theory if you know what I mean. Both sides are afraid that the other will begin to supplant their opinion as absolute truth, thus fear creeps in.

your fave facetious fascist made this thread to address the bipolar dissonance of the Left re Christianity vs. Islam. you're right in that Christianity is universalist and rejects moral relativism, which the Left and especially LGBT+ feel threatened by. but then you realize that Islam is also universalist and upholds the doctrine of absolute truth revealed by God - I'm dying to know why one is an antiquated superstition that threatens freedom and the other is noble and cultured.

I actually already know the answer, of course. the answer is that the Left, being naturally subversive, valorizes brown cultures in general because their alien presence in the West serves to fracture the solidarity and cohesion that makes a white, conservative society possible. I'm convinced that the upper echelon of the Left privately despises Islam as backward, but sees them as useful pawns in their war against traditionalism in the West. we don't mind a few gays thrown from roofs for the time being if it means we can set up Venezuela 2.0 after the last WASP is beheaded by a "refugee"

ThisBougieLife
September 27th, 2016, 12:16 PM
"LGBT+" and "Christian" are not mutually exclusive though. Aren't we forgetting about Milo Yiannopoulos, everyone's favorite Gay Christian® ?

Flapjack
September 27th, 2016, 12:33 PM
"LGBT+" and "Christian" are not mutually exclusive though. Aren't we forgetting about Milo Yiannopoulos, everyone's favorite Gay Christian® ?
Of course not, I have a Christian friend who said her mom considers gays the new Jews which I think is a very high honour.

PlasmaHam
September 27th, 2016, 12:38 PM
Of course not, I have a Christian friend who said her mom considers gays the new Jews which I think is a very high honour.
:confused: I don't know how you do things on the other side of the pond, but that doesn't sound like a high honor. Maybe that is some cultural thing idk.

Flapjack
September 27th, 2016, 12:41 PM
:confused: I don't know how you do things on the other side of the pond, but that doesn't sound like a high honor. Maybe that is some cultural thing idk.
I am not Christian so I don't know :P A few years ago I had a Christian guy explain to me how the Jews would bring back Jesus? Maybe that's why? The friend that told me her Mom considers gays to be the 21st century Jews is literally one of the nicest girls you will ever meet and comes from one of them stereotypical loving kind Christian families so I highly doubt it was anti-Semitic :)

phuckphace
September 27th, 2016, 12:57 PM
"LGBT+" and "Christian" are not mutually exclusive though. Aren't we forgetting about Milo Yiannopoulos, everyone's favorite Gay Christian® ?

underrated post

StoppingTom
September 27th, 2016, 01:02 PM
i'm not afraid of christmas

phuckphace
September 27th, 2016, 01:30 PM
i'm not afraid of christmas

THIS NOVEMBER: Reichskanzler Trump bans Christmas and forcefully converts everyone to Wotanism. "Christ just gave himself over to the Romans without a fight! low energy. really sad! I like gods who weren't crucified, okay? Make the Winter Solstice Great Again"

PlasmaHam
September 27th, 2016, 03:06 PM
i'm not afraid of christmas

Certain members on here want to force away any religion connections from Christmas and Easter. I'm not naming names, you know who you are.

Vlerchan
September 27th, 2016, 03:49 PM
you're right in that Christianity is universalist and rejects moral relativism, which the Left and especially LGBT+ feel threatened by.
The Left feel threatened by it because it is also universalist and rejects moral relativism - it is anti-essentialist, is what distinguishes them. The difference between Judeo-Christian and Islamic morality is that Judeo-Christian morality represents a potential counter-Hegamon (and outright is in some places) which makes it a much more dangerous force than a mere regionalist Islam.

Though, I have begun to see the biggest battle as that between liberal dignity-culture and post-liberal victimhood-culture (defined elsewhere). Traditionalists lost back when we all started finding Will and Grace funny.

---

Edit: Though, I don't believe for a moment that Christians receive a fraction of the discrimination that Muslims receive.

ThisBougieLife
September 27th, 2016, 04:36 PM
"post-liberal victimhood-culture"

Ah, that is a wonderful term. Much better than "SJW".

Arkansasguy
September 27th, 2016, 07:31 PM
what do you guys think of the Christophobia that is rooted deep within the left wing of Western countries like France, the UK, USA and Israel?

I suspect that in Israel, hostility towards Christianity is more of a bipartisan thing.

Do you believe Christophobia is a thing? Why do you think this?

Most certainly. The left hates Christianity with a passion. I'd ascribe this to the fact that Christianity is the historic culture of the west, and leftism consists in hatred of one's native culture, but this doesn't fully explain it, as leftists hate Christianity even in places where Christianity has never thrived.

Western leftists like Islam because they view the importation of Muslims as a weapon to subvert western culture further, and they think that Muslim immigrants and their children will eventually become liberals (whether they're right or not is anyone's guess, I used to assume that they are, but the (intelligent) strategy adopted by Europe's Muslims of ghettoizing doesn't bode well for that plan). Leftists in Afghanistan, for example, certainly don't like Islam.

ThisBougieLife
September 27th, 2016, 07:56 PM
I swear, if I hear the word "subvert" one more time, I'm going to strangle a kitten...

Porpoise101
September 27th, 2016, 10:30 PM
I don't like fundies. Other than that, American religious groups in general are pretty good. They organize charitable events and help out the community. They create some sense of social organization in areas that desperately need it. Without Christianity and the church, I would think that some cities and immigrant communities would be worse off. I do think that some leftist atheist types are anti Christian. For example, one lefty at my school was ranting about how ridiculous 'skygod' is and how it oppresses people and hurts us.

Kahn
September 28th, 2016, 12:32 AM
I swear, if I hear the word "subvert" one more time, I'm going to strangle a kitten...

Here I am, subverting your wishes. RIP kitty.

phuckphace
September 30th, 2016, 08:53 AM
The difference between Judeo-Christian and Islamic morality is that Judeo-Christian morality represents a potential counter-Hegamon (and outright is in some places)...

Great Hegemon War 2k16

[...]which makes it a much more dangerous force than a mere regionalist Islam.

yeah, about that:

http://imgur.com/NZgH45n.jpg

Though, I have begun to see the biggest battle as that between liberal dignity-culture and post-liberal victimhood-culture (defined elsewhere).

as I previously stated I think that Liberalism in your sense is largely extinct now and "progressive" politics have devolved into what you call post-liberal victimhood culture. these SJW don't think in terms of hegemons or whatever, they're just childlike hedonists whose understanding of the world is warped and limited. note how Clinton had to stoop to roleplaying as an SJW during the debate (which I think she secretly believes is beneath her dignity) because that's what the rank-and-file Left is now, a victim party.

Traditionalists lost back when we all started finding Will and Grace funny.

and then thanks to the Internet and the slippery slope, normal people were presented with a contrast between the sanitized and propagandized gay lifestyle seen on TV and the actual reality which is drugged, disease-ridden misery and death, further deepening their distrust of the Left.

Stronk Serb
September 30th, 2016, 11:45 AM
Well, I took a look at the Seven Deadly Sins (Christianity) and the Seven Sins that doom a Person to Hell (Islam). The Christian version has a lot to do about morally preserving the individual, which is nice, evem atheists can abide by those rules. The Islamic version has a lot to do with preserving the faith, even if individuals and Kuffars stand to suffer for it. I mean Christianity is morr catered to the moral needs of the individual especially Eastern Orthodoxy.

Vlerchan
September 30th, 2016, 02:55 PM
yeah, about that[.]
Muslims in Europe don't have a fertility rate much above replacement - it's about 2.2 or 2.3 - and it's expected to decline over the next while (it's demonstrated converge towards the host-culture's populations in the time-series).

Muslims will certainly expand as a proportion of the total population but the idea that our society will be conquered is an utter falsehood.

as I previously stated I think that Liberalism in your sense is largely extinct now and "progressive" politics have devolved into what you call post-liberal victimhood culture.
35% of Democrats figure the government should be allowed to curtail speech that is offensive to minorities - and 27% of Independent (a growing cohort in the United States) [majorities in Europe do, and those demonstrate a much more restrictionist bent]. It's also notable that the those with a college-degree seem to be the most against such action. So, whilst it has been a rough number of years, and our generation in particular seems awful, but our politics haven't lost yet.

source (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/).

actual reality which is drugged, disease-ridden misery and death
Gay people in Ireland are pretty cool.

---

"post-liberal victimhood-culture"

Ah, that is a wonderful term. Much better than "SJW".
I actually mean it to refer to the alt-right and other conservatives of a 'but-my-privilege!'-bent, who happen to be just as bad. It's affecting politics from both sides, though the SJWs are louder.

Porpoise101
September 30th, 2016, 04:17 PM
Well, I took a look at the Seven Deadly Sins (Christianity) and the Seven Sins that doom a Person to Hell (Islam). The Christian version has a lot to do about morally preserving the individual, which is nice, evem atheists can abide by those rules. The Islamic version has a lot to do with preserving the faith, even if individuals and Kuffars stand to suffer for it. I mean Christianity is morr catered to the moral needs of the individual especially Eastern Orthodoxy.
I doubt that. From a non-christian, non-Muslim perspective, I pretty much see Islam as "monotheism for the orient", while Christianity was co-opted by the Europeans. Of course, this is very broad because there are Christian communities in many eastern cultures (church of the East) and there are Muslims in Europe (wherever ottomans existed and the Muslims weren't purged). Essentially, the religions are very similar but have taken on an identity relating to their cultures. For example, there is the adoption of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew as the liturgical language of the church by Catholics (I understand that the Orthodox were more accepting). Muslims adopted Arabic as their sole language to reflect its status as the language of the Prophet. But when it comes to morality, they have much to share.

Seven Deadly Sins (Christian):

Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Envy
Hubris
Hatred


Seven Deadly Sins (Islam): For this list, I couldn't find just one list of seven. I will use the list found here. (https://islamqa.info/en/200632)

Idolatry/Polytheism
Taking too many loans (like greed)
Ridiculing the chaste (similar to lust)
Witchcraft
Murder (similar to hatred)
Stealing from orphans (similar to greed)
Fleeing from battlefield (similar to sloth)

To me, the reason there is such an emphasis on anti-polytheism is because the situation and context of Arabia back then. During Muhammad's time many Arabs were polytheists. When the concept of the Seven Deadly Sins arose in Egypt, most of the Roman Empire was completely converted. Polytheism wasn't relevant. Also, the people who crafted the Seven Deadly Sins were monks who secluded themselves. Muhammad actually lived among the people, which is why some of his morality is more specific and practical, while the Christian one is more conceptual.

Paraxiom
September 30th, 2016, 05:35 PM
I'm sure it's a thing if it is being speculated on significantly.

I am as much Islamophobic as I am Christophobic, if the former is directed toward extremist 'Muslims' and the latter toward extremist 'Christians'.

I might as well hate both extremist groups anyway, whatever the scope of the 'phobia' toward them is interpreted as.


Make the Winter Solstice Great Again

Sure!


[...] thanks to the Internet and the slippery slope, normal people were presented with a contrast between the sanitized and propagandized gay lifestyle seen on TV and the actual reality which is drugged, disease-ridden misery and death, further deepening their distrust of the Left.

Perhaps you're just in a happenstance pretty bad area, if what you say is correct.

PlasmaHam
October 12th, 2016, 10:21 PM
I've decided to pull a Flapjack here and only post a video. I don't have the time for commentary, but it is fascinating.
ytdMUddGe-U

Flapjack
October 13th, 2016, 10:14 AM
Is there anyone on here that believes the starbucks xmas cups were an example of Christianophobia? Coming from Europe it sounds so silly but I would love for someone to explain it to me and I will keep an open mind.

mattsmith48
October 13th, 2016, 10:21 AM
Is there anyone on here that believes the starbucks xmas cups were an example of Christianophobia? Coming from Europe it sounds so silly but I would love for someone to explain it to me and I will keep an open mind.

I think I miss that one what was it about?

Flapjack
October 13th, 2016, 11:06 AM
I think I miss that one what was it about?
Basically Starbucks every year released a xmas cup design and last year it was perceived as being 'not christmasy enough' so it was a war on christmas and Christians xD It was all over fox news and even Trump talked about it :P It is so crazy I feel as though I must be missing something!
VFTEbohlU48
Ujhj8eDyXwE

PlasmaHam
October 13th, 2016, 12:24 PM
Basically Starbucks every year released a xmas cup design and last year it was perceived as being 'not christmasy enough' so it was a war on christmas and Christians xD It was all over fox news and even Trump talked about it :P It is so crazy I feel as though I must be missing something!


Dude, you get offended if someone doesn't believe with your ideology of equality, you blame that on Islamaphobia, or homophobia, or zenophobia, or racism, or transphobia.... goes on and on. To say that one group is acting crazy by claiming one type of phobia, while you go round calling most anyone who doesn't agree with you as phobic, seems a bit hypocritical.

mattsmith48
October 13th, 2016, 12:30 PM
Basically Starbucks every year released a xmas cup design and last year it was perceived as being 'not christmasy enough' so it was a war on christmas and Christians xD It was all over fox news and even Trump talked about it :P It is so crazy I feel as though I must be missing something!
VFTEbohlU48
Ujhj8eDyXwE

Ah remember when democracy was still serious and Trump was just a joke

Seriously!? if you buy coffee at starbucks you should be outrage by the price not what is on the cup not by what is on the cup

Flapjack
October 13th, 2016, 12:36 PM
Ah remember when democracy was still serious and Trump was just a joke

Seriously!? if you buy coffee at starbucks you should be outrage by the price not what is on the cup not by what is on the cup
Omg this actually has me in stitches xD

PlasmaHam
October 13th, 2016, 12:37 PM
Ah remember when democracy was still serious and Trump was just a joke

Seriously!? if you buy coffee at starbucks you should be outrage by the price not what is on the cup not by what is on the cup

Yea, lets go all eat at Chick-fil-a, one of the best fastfood places in America! But wait, thousands of Liberals are boycotting Chick-fil-a because, oh no! They don't support liberal policies! They must be crazy too, to boycott a place just because they don't agree with something that doesn't even go into making the delicious food! You should just be worried about the food and price, not the opinions of the company!

And all those people who boycott NC because of HB2, they are crazy too! There are numerous companies who have denied bringing service to the state, because of a little law that states the obvious! They should just be worried about making money, not what is the opinion of lawmakers!
Ah remember when democracy was still serious..
Ah yes, when people actually enforced immigration laws and carelessly handling classified information was punished. When people actually listened to others without calling them racists or homophobes. When the Constitution was supported and the President didn't blackmail the states to his bidding. Yes, the good old days.
a

mattsmith48
October 13th, 2016, 12:56 PM
Yea, lets go all eat at Chick-fil-a, one of the best fastfood places in America! But wait, thousands of Liberals are boycotting Chick-fil-a because, oh no! They don't support liberal policies! They must be crazy too, to boycott a place just because they don't agree with something that doesn't even go into making the delicious food! You should just be worried about the food and price, not the opinions of the company!

What policies Chick-fil-a does not support exactly?

And all those people who boycott NC because of HB2, they are crazy too! There are numerous companies who have denied bringing service to the state, because of a little law that states the obvious! They should just be worried about making money, not what is the opinion of lawmakers!

There is a difference between not letting people use the bathroom of the gender they identify as and having a coffee cup not honouring Jesus by putting a old fat man sitting in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer.

Paraxiom
October 13th, 2016, 04:42 PM
I've decided to pull a Flapjack here and only post a video. I don't have the time for commentary, but it is fascinating.


I fully go with the first 2/3 of the video, but am not settled with the other 1/3 by reasons of being suspicious of generalisation in areas.

I'm not in general alignment for or against Western media, though I am more 'against'.

Also, I don't see the sufferings of a certain religious/ethnic/etc group as being immune from criticism, because criticism can be directed at aspects of that group that are not relevant to their suffering. I mean this in general - I don't intend to support christophobia.

Flapjack
October 13th, 2016, 04:44 PM
There was claims earlier in this thread of Christophobia running rampant in the left-wing, any evidence of this?

Paraxiom
October 13th, 2016, 05:29 PM
There was claims earlier in this thread of Christophobia running rampant in the left-wing, any evidence of this?

Publicly mentioning your Christian faith, which is more likely to get implicit/explicit negative response in a more 'liberal'/left-wing environment than an Islamic follower would. Yes, I'm being serious. As for running up some evidence for this, I'm not motivated, partly because of how it is more difficult to find examples of an event through media that has a confirmation bias against such events. I'm just talking about this without intending to imply further into general politics.

ThisBougieLife
October 15th, 2016, 10:28 AM
When Christians in the United States cry "persecution", I do have a tendency to just roll my eyes in response. If you want to see actual persecution of Christians, go to a place like Egypt where Coptic Christians are regularly marginalized and scapegoated and their churches are attacked, or a place like Sudan where people are put to death for converting to Christianity. Christians in the United States are not "persecuted" because they no longer have a monopoly on religion and culture. Christians are not persecuted because they no longer get to set the rules for marriage, something that never belonged exclusively to Christianity anyway. Christians are not persecuted because this nation will never be a "Christian nation" the way Saudi Arabia is an Islamic nation. Christianity is still the most prevalent religion, it still has an inscrutable effect on American law, and you would be hard-pressed to become President without professing some kind of Christian faith.

I do find it somewhat comical when people associate Christianity with "whiteness" however, given that a large percentage of black and Hispanic people are Christian, though the latter are often Catholic and sometimes that is treated in its own category by some (I still hear regular claims of Catholicism not even being Christianity). But because of this association, some probably see Islam as more "exotic" and therefore somehow more respectable, simply on account of it being a minority and rampant Islamophobia being more transparent.

You should just be worried about the food and price, not the opinions of the company!

You should be worried about the price if you suspect your money is going to support "ex-gay" groups and other associations that support ex-gay groups. Many of us in the LGBT community consider those groups to be nothing short of child abuse organizations, so when it became public that Chick-fil-a was donating to them (they don't anymore) there was certainly a tangible reason to boycott that seems to be a bit more principled than outrage over a red cup. You can certainly criticize the reasons for a person's boycott without implying that they shouldn't have the right to do so for whatever reasons they wish.