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Sarvaka
September 16th, 2016, 08:17 AM
Hi, I've just registered and am after a little advice! My sincere apologies in advance, this is a pretty long post. I'm not even sure if the detail is necessary or not! Good luck making sense of this :P :whoops:

I'm part of a large group of close friends, and in that group there used to be a smaller, closer group of 4 (me, my friend "Samantha", "James" and "Ryan"). Our closer group of 4 would link up on most days as we all live close by and have known each other for years, I always thought we were extremely close as a group.

At the start of the summer, there was a secret development in the friendship of Samantha and James. They suddenly stopped coming out with the group and would lie and say they have things to do so they can go in early, only to be spotted driving into town together. Our whole friendship group just allowed it and gave them some space, initially thinking Samantha was just having a difficult time with life and James was just making sure she was okay.

These sneaky behaviours kept going on for a good 3 weeks. It started to get the rest of our group down a bit as Samantha and James would come out for ten minutes then lie, say they had to go home for whatever reason. It made everyone else feel like they weren't good enough for either Samantha or James, and I think a lot of our friends still feel the same way about that.

Samantha came to me in early summer and asked for advice on how to prevent things turning romantic with James when she noticed things getting a bit OTT (James always inviting himself to her house, sending goodnight texts, buying her stuff, taking her places, etc).

She then came to both me and Ryan a few weeks later and showed us the messages he was sending her every night (just standard relationship goodnight messages tbf), was happy to show us all his x's, kissy emoji's and "love you" ends to the messages but would not show us her responses to them. Came across as though she was just showing us how into her James is, which made me and Ryan worry over whether Samantha was just enjoying the attention and didn't feel the same as James seemed to.

Samantha talks to my brother a lot, confides in him, and she sent him a series of snapchats and messages, and also initiated a conversation about her and James where she explained she'd...done him a favour quite a few times. You know what I mean. She also said some concerning things over snapchat about how she was feeling in general, which is why my brother told me about their conversations. Samantha doesn't know that Ryan and I know of her conversations with my brother.

After this everything went quiet, and it was just me and Ryan slyly asking how things were going whenever we saw Samantha (which was difficult, as James was always with her) for a long time. She would give really flippant answers and say everything was fine and nothing was going on (apparently she forgot she showed us James's messages to her which don't exactly scream "nothin's going on").

Ryan and I both speculated a lot about what was going on, concerned for Samantha because she has some mental health problems and she was saying she wasn't comfortable with the developing situation, and concerned for James because Samantha was making out that she wasn't comfortable with the situation -- but then continuing to lead him on. Letting him go to hers whenever, having cuddles, "doing him favours", letting him buy her stuff and take her places.

I ended up sharing a tent with Samantha and James a few weeks ago. Samantha and James must have thought I was asleep when I wasn't. Things were heard, Sarvaka did not have a peaceful night's sleep. :whoops: They've also been spotted kissing by nosey neighbours and parents.

Ryan and I would talk about it a lot together during the early stages, worrying about both Samantha and James. We'd speak to Samantha and James as well, trying to make sure everything was fine and trying to understand what was going on. James straight up told Ryan nothing was going on. Samantha also told me nothing was going on a few days ago.

Even if nothing is going on (which I don't believe), then Samantha lied to my brother (and also what on earth were those slurping noises in the tengt). If something is going on, then James and Samantha are lying straight to two of their best mates' faces, for absolutely no reason. This wouldn't have even been a topic of conversation had they just been honest from the beginning. It's because they've lied that it's affected the group. It seems like Samantha wasn't sure to begin with and then started to get used to the idea and now enjoys the relationship she's got with James. So why can't that have just been said from the start?

I'm just having trouble dealing with being lied to by a friend I've had since I was 5. I classed Samantha as my best friend up until this summer and it's just unclear why she would lie to me about it, and why James would lie to Ryan about it.

I know for a fact that she lied to me the other day when she told me nothing had happened between her and James. It would have been the perfect opportunity for me to say "actually Sam, I know about everything. I was in that tent as well" but I never said anything, I just let the conversation move on to another topic. The reason I'm hesitant to say anything is because I don't know the whole story. I keep thinking there must be a legitimate reason they're lying about it but I can never find a reputable reason.

I don't really know what to do to be fair. There's a lot of tension when Samantha and James are out with the rest of us, and I never really know what to say. I feel like I should tell Samantha that I know more than she thinks but what will that accomplish? I don't want to be lied to, especially when there's no reason for it. I'm always honest and open with Samantha and I understand that people are different, but it is quite painful knowing that someone I classed as a best friend and put a lot of time and energy into doesn't feel able to be honest with me about things.

It seems as though I'm just going to end up removing the "friend" badge from Samantha altogether. I don't want that to happen but we've known each other since ages 4 and 5. If she'll still lie right to my face despite over a decade of close friendship, then what am I doing still trying to be her friend when she won't be mine?

Ryan feels the exact same about James (similar friendships; me and Samantha, Ryan and James) but has just accepted it and, while I know he's sad to have to let a close friend go, he has a lot more follow through than me and has stepped back away from James a little bit to stop himself from getting let down to be fair. I feel like I need to do the same, but how can I let something this small ruin a whole friendship?

I just don't know how to deal with the fact that I've been lied to by someone I thought was my best friend. I understand completely that they probably aren't thinking too much about other people, they're probably just concerning themselves with each other, but there is no reason for Samantha to lie to a friend who is just trying to make sure she's okay, and the same goes for James.

It's been going on for a while now and there are definite changes in the group. How should I deal with being lied to by one of my best friends?

jake97aus
September 16th, 2016, 10:45 AM
You should write a book, I was honestly so captivated when reading that! Anyway on a more serious note, from what I can gather Samantha (and James) may be afraid that you and Ryan will judge them for their relationship. From personal experience I know that friends tend to abandon their friends when they're in a relationship without even knowing it.

However, I do believe that as a best friend this is something she should have told you. And then to lie about it just shows she's no longer respecting your friendship. If it were me, I would approach her and say straight out that you know what's been going on. You might want to then add that you don't have a problem with them dating, but are extremely upset that she didn't feel she could tell you about it.

If she continues to lie even after you approach her about it then I suggest you move on. You deserve more than how she's been treating you, and in my opinion her behaviour is certainly not that of what constitutes as a best friend.

I hope this all turns out okay in the end, don't let it stress you out too much!
Let me know how it goes :)

jamie_n5
September 16th, 2016, 01:30 PM
Well it is time I think to approach her and just flat out tell her how you feel and that you feel that she and James haven't been honest with you and Ryan. Some people in a relationship seem to want to keep everything about their relationship private. I don't know if that is the case here or not. But you would think that as close as the 4 of you are that they would be more open with you guys. These kind of situations are very hard to deal with because feelings can be hurt and emotions riled up. I just hope that by maybe all 4 of you getting together and you and Ryan initiating the discussion of what has happened here or what is happening that you can talk and work things out. Good luck.

Sarvaka
September 16th, 2016, 03:02 PM
Thanks lads, it is difficult because I completely understand if she wants to keep it private (though she kind of messed that up by fooling around with him while I was in the same tent!!), that's her right. It is their business and I have no issue wit them wanting to keep it lowkey, in fact I completely understand! However, I still cannot understand the lying.

I also can't understand why Samantha would make out like the change in relationship was a bad thing at the start, only to (literally) pretend like she hadn't said a word about it two weeks later. Acting like nothing had ever happened and she'd never asked for my, and Ryan's, advice on the matter. If she changed her mind and decided being with James was actually a good development, I see no reason why she couldn't have asked for another chat with me and Ryan to update us...She essentially made us worry about it and is now acting as though we are worrying for no reason.

She came to us to talk about this. She made it seem like James's behaviour wasn't acceptable and like it was a problem. And now she's making out like the rest of the group is making up the whole "Samantha and James sitting in a tree" scenario, and has told me she feels the group is shunning her and James, not inviting either of them out (in Sam's defense that's true. Nobody is thrilled they've been straight up lied to by two close friends) and things like that. In reality, for whatever reason, Samantha and James were the ones to initially take themselves away from the group; to segregate themselves from their friends.

Samantha has her fair share of mental health illnesses that she's been coping incredibly well with for a very long time. In my original post, I mentioned she'd sent some concerning messages and snapchats to my brother. They were in relation to her mental health and what she was saying was really worrying for our whole group of friends, without giving out too much information. Once my brother told me what she'd been saying, I spoke with all of our friends about it, appropriately (in small groups or 1-2-1 so that everyone would have a chance to take it in and decide how they felt about what she'd been saying) as I felt they should know as her friends.

Among the things Samantha was saying was that she "had no friends". This was back when our group of 4 was still pretty strong. Our bigger group of friends has 9 people in it, and they're all friends of ours (as in actual mates, people I'd call if I was ever stuck and people who would call me if they were ever in a jam). I think this was just due to the fact she was having a difficult time with her family. She was having money issues at the time as well. Regardless of her reasons for saying that she had no friends, it still hurt to hear as I value my friends a lot and always try to make sure they know they mean a lot to me. I know it hurt our other friends to hear that as well.

Lately I haven't been putting the effort in with Samantha (or at all with James, for another reason entirely) as she didn't count me as a friend at the start of the summer, when she was telling my brother these things and when I was doing my best to be a good friend to her, unaware that anything was wrong, so I don't see the point in putting effort in now honestly. If she doesn't count me as a friend when everything is going alright in our friendship circle, then why would she count me as a friend when there are some issues and a bit of tension that we need to actively deal with to get over?

It's a bad attitude to have about the situation but I can't bring myself to keep putting effort in when I know it's not going to be seen or felt by her. I don't at all want to bail on our friendship, especially over something this small and calm. I always thought we were stronger than that, but I also can't say "I'll just keep swimming" when I know that would be detrimental for me at a time when I am trying to learn how to differentiate "a friend of mine" from "people I am a friend to" if that makes sense.

The way I see it, I have three options:

-Stop calling her my friend, don't expect much, don't get my hopes up, don't put too much energy and effort in as it doesn't get felt or recognised. It would take a while but eventually this approach would prove to Samantha that she was right when she said she had no friends. What friend would jump ship over what I'm sure Sam just sees as her being private? I am the only one who would benefit, and I am not sure the pros outweigh the cons. I would not be stressing over this silly thing anymore, but I'd also lose a really good friend and I think that would always hurt.
-Speak with her, tell her what I know (which would mean she finds out that my brother doesn't value her privacy, which I think will affect her greatly) and essentially confront her in as anodyne a way as possible. Even with the best outcome, her reaction to my brother breaking her trust would be negative -- it would upset her. Is me getting the truth from Samantha, instead of careful investigative work, worth it?
-Keep doing what I'm doing now. Ask how it's going, don't say anything when she says "yeah it's fine" and keep letting her lie to me about what's going on with James, why she has to go in so early, when she'll be out next, what her plans are, when we'll next meet up, etc. Hope things settle down, hope she tells me the truth eventually and just power through until then. Is our friendship worth that? Doing this option would get to me after a while. It has already started to. Is my happiness worth our friendship?

It's getting me down quite a lot but I understand nobody else is responsible for Samantha's happiness, and if she feels she isn't being included in the group then she needs to actively include herself, just like the rest of us do when we feel a bit put out for whatever reason. She actually did the opposite, by removing herself from our group chat which is how all of us link and make plans. Samantha and James saying that the rest of the group were the ones to initially stop making the effort with them at the start of the summer is pure breeze. It was Sam and James who initially starting airing phone calls from their friends and ignoring invites to go out in lieu of staying in together.

It is a difficult one indeed. :(

ClaraWho
September 21st, 2016, 02:00 AM
Firstly, please no essays! Think of this as having a word limit and at least prune repetition. That was a mammoth amount to expect someone to read to help you. Help us to help you, keep it concise and to the point.

To answer your question with a question; What has her relationship got to do with you?

So she intially wanted advice, then decided she wanted to make her own decisions on her personal relationship. You seem put out that you aren't getting to be included, when really she doesn't owe you that.

Closeness and friends fade in and out over time. You make new friends, lose touch or care for older ones. This is just all part of life and the progression of time.

So maybe you aren't as close anymore. Maybe she has become more private with her love life. Speaking of which, it was NOT okay for her to perform sex acts in the same tent as you - although it is a bit late to mention it now.

My point is, you don't really have much of a reason to be bent out of shape over her saying 'it's fine' or 'nothing is going on'. You're over thinking this and trying to be over-involved in her life, the more you push her for details she wants hidden, the further she will run. Maybe in time she will choose to confide in you, if not then that is her right. You are not her therapist and we all have secrets.

~ Clara

Sarvaka
September 21st, 2016, 08:52 AM
As I made clear, the issue isn't her relationship with James. It's the fact that they are both lying directly to all of their friends about it and then putting the blame on everybody else when they feel they aren't being included in the group (despite the fact that they are the ones segregating themselves and not being involved with the group).

The issue is to do with the lying and the, what I would define as, emotional manipulation. It's left us all questioning whether Samantha and James are even our friends. A friend should never lie to another friend.

Apologies if you couldn't understand my original post. If you have difficulty understanding my posts or aren't willing to read them thoroughly before responding then there is no need to respond. I'm not going to skimp on information I feel at the time is important to enable people to write a quicker and less helpful response.

Nobody has to offer help! It's simply me asking for some advice. If you can't be bothered to give it feel free to keep scrolling! :) Thanks for trying to help, in this situation your post wasn't helpful as you didn't grasp what the actual issue was (potentially due to you being unable to make sense of my original post).

Since my original post, I've found out new information regarding something else that has proven they were never friends of mine and that I wasted 14 years being a friend to them.

Thanks anyway.

ClaraWho
September 21st, 2016, 02:20 PM
Excuse me? What is your problem?

I put in the effort to read every lengthy paragraph you wrote, the least you could do is have the decency to acknowledge it, even if you entirely disagree. I understood every simple word you wrote. Hence my reply picked up the key points from your diatribe. There's no need to be so rude.

I'll make it easier for you to follow;

She lied to you about being in a relationship, about how she felt about him, etc. Fine.

So what? Get over it. Maybe she didn't want you involved in that area of her personal life anymore. She has that right. That doesn't make her a bad friend, that just means she's no longer as close as she was. Which is what you seem to be craving/feel you are owed ('after all the time and effort I invested in this friendship'). This happens in friendships and maybe in time it will change back. Eb and flow.

Now the whole 'not feeling involved' bit, again, don't overthink it. When they say it, either text asking them to hang out, or just end the friendship. One or the other. She can't make that claim if you are inviting them both. And if you aren't? Well then it isn't emotional manipulation, it is the truth. Can't have it both ways.

That you need to make your posts shorter isn't an insult to you Sarvaka, it is constructive advice so that more people share their opinion and help on this (and future) topics. Really long blocks of text put people off, that's why you got so few replies. I get you are in a bad mood, but please don't try taking it out on people trying to help you on here.

We've got off on the wrong foot clearly and I've now explained my opinion as fully as I can, so I shall stop commenting. Hopefully on future topics you are less hostile and aggressive, so we can put this behind us. If you feel this topic is closed due to the new information you have found out, you can ask a mod to close and archive the thread.

Welcome to Vteen and I hope you stick around,

~ Clara