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mattsmith48
September 9th, 2016, 07:17 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37317782

With all the great talk in ROTW he's another maniac trying to get nuclear weapons

PlasmaHam
September 9th, 2016, 07:54 PM
mattsmith48 You are the only person fear mongering about Trump here, so I wouldn't call it a "great talk", unless you count talking to yourself as one.

About Kim Jong-crazypants and his nuclear toys, I doubt he will actually attack anybody. He is a lot of words, but no action, and has a penchant for exaggerations. Kinda like you. North Korea will be in no way able to handle an attack by US and allied countries, and it's closest ally, China, is already trying to separate itself from them. The nukes they are developing, in my opinion, are simply for enforcing North Korea's status among both the citizens, and the international communities.

Porpoise101
September 9th, 2016, 08:12 PM
The issue with the tests is that it while it brings attention to Kim Jong Un, these tests always take attention to the real nightmare that the North Korean people suffer through. That place makes me sad thinking about it.

mattsmith48
September 9th, 2016, 11:14 PM
mattsmith48 You are the only person fear mongering about Trump here, so I wouldn't call it a "great talk", unless you count talking to yourself as one.

About Kim Jong-crazypants and his nuclear toys, I doubt he will actually attack anybody. He is a lot of words, but no action, and has a penchant for exaggerations. Kinda like you. North Korea will be in no way able to handle an attack by US and allied countries, and it's closest ally, China, is already trying to separate itself from them. The nukes they are developing, in my opinion, are simply for enforcing North Korea's status among both the citizens, and the international communities.

You know what is really fear mongering? Donald Fucking Trump and other conservative and racist fear mongering about ISIS and undocumented immigrants freely entering the US to kill and rape everyone when its widely untrue and factless, when there is a real threat testing fucking nuclear weapons and who knows how close they are from putting that thing on a rocket and attack someone with it, and while Hillary Clinton is proposing solutions, you got that orange clown you support blaming the whole thing on Hillary Clinton saying that its fully her fault when its not and propose zero solutions probably because he as no clue whats the fuck is going on or what he should do and if he was president would probably panic and nuke them first.

Dalcourt
September 9th, 2016, 11:40 PM
MattShith48 I really dunno where your strange fascination and fear of someone starting a nuclear war comes from but the real tragedy I see in North Korea is that Kim Jong Un spends unreasonable amounts of money on his toys while the North Korean people are suffering also due to sanctions the West uses agains North Korea as a punishment for his nuclear program

Paraxiom
September 12th, 2016, 04:02 AM
Sounds like more of the North trying to make it appear strong and to be feared; it isn't working at the scale the officials want it to though.

What would be a properly significant event is a nuke being fired directly at another country.

Jinglebottom
September 12th, 2016, 11:59 AM
I hope they don't nuke Seoul. :c

Porpoise101
September 12th, 2016, 04:39 PM
I hope they don't nuke Seoul. :c
They wouldn't do that. Nuclear deterrence is alive and well in the 21st century.

mattsmith48
September 12th, 2016, 06:39 PM
They wouldn't do that. Nuclear deterrence is alive and well in the 21st century.

Why would North Korea try to build nuclear weapons as a deterrent when no one ever threated to use nuclear weapons against them? People on here know my worries of a maniac like Donald Trump having access to nuclear weapons because is a unstable crazy person and doesn't seem to understand the consiquences of using the nuclear weapons, Kim Jong Un is not any different in fact he seem to be worst and more dangerous than Trump, I have no doubt he would have no problem with fire a nuclear weapons against South Korea or Japan.He only cares about one person, himself thats why sanctions against North Korea won't stop Kim Jong Un from developing nukes as long he is not affected by it.

Vlerchan
September 12th, 2016, 06:42 PM
Why would North Korea try to build nuclear weapons as a deterrent when no one ever threated to use nuclear weapons against them?
Porpoise's point was that North Korea wouldn't attempt to nuke South Korea in fear of retaliation.

Nonetheless the answer to this claim is: Expectations.

He only cares about one person, himself thats why sanctions against North Korea won't stop Kim Jong Un from developing nukes as long he is not affected by it.
If he just cares about himself then that's reason enough never to use nuclear weapons.

mattsmith48
September 12th, 2016, 06:45 PM
Porpoise's point was that North Korea wouldn't attempt to nuke South Korea in fear of retaliation.

Nonetheless the answer to this claim is: Expectations.


If he just cares about himself then that's reason enough never to use nuclear weapons.

If he as capability to shield himself from a nuclear attack and his effects why wouldn't he do it, he doesn't care if thousands of people get killed if he's able to survive with out a scratch

Porpoise101
September 12th, 2016, 07:04 PM
If he as capability to shield himself from a nuclear attack and his effects why wouldn't he do it, he doesn't care if thousands of people get killed if he's able to survive with out a scratch
Even Beijing distrusts North Korea. South Korea is important to Chinese, American, and Russian interests even. Even that idiot in Pyongyang is smart enough not to get the Big Three against him. Not to mention the fact that the US would drag in some Western Europeans, your country, the Aussies, and the Japanese against them. The only people who like North Korea are the Iranians, and that was to get stuff smuggled in. Now that the sanctions are lifted, they too are leaving Pyongyang in the dark.

Essentially, the God Nation that is True (north) Korea cannot withstand the combined might of the world. And you can bet that the madman won't live through those hypothetical events.

mattsmith48
September 12th, 2016, 07:12 PM
Even Beijing distrusts North Korea. South Korea is important to Chinese, American, and Russian interests even. Even that idiot in Pyongyang is smart enough not to get the Big Three against him. Not to mention the fact that the US would drag in some Western Europeans, your country, the Aussies, and the Japanese against them. The only people who like North Korea are the Iranians, and that was to get stuff smuggled in. Now that the sanctions are lifted, they too are leaving Pyongyang in the dark.

Essentially, the God Nation that is True (north) Korea cannot withstand the combined might of the world. And you can bet that the madman won't live through those hypothetical events.

From what I read over the past week China is still friends with them of course those nuclear test doesn't help their relationship but there still friends.

Porpoise101
September 12th, 2016, 08:31 PM
From what I read over the past week China is still friends with them of course those nuclear test doesn't help their relationship but there still friends.
They aren't really friends. Beijing allows some exit/entrance on the border and deports North Koreans to North Korea again. They also are protective of the nation in that they aren't just going to allow the US to attack it and invade. But with nukes, NK doesn't need China any more to protect itself. It is for this reason Beijing is beginning to go against Pyongyang.

PlasmaHam
September 12th, 2016, 08:31 PM
From what I read over the past week China is still friends with them of course those nuclear test doesn't help their relationship but there still friends.

China sees North Korea as kinda their mentally crazy cousin. They have a relationship of being cousins, but China likes to keep their distance, just so the crazy reputation of North Korea doesn't rub off, and because staying around someone crazy isn't the best idea. But China isn't going to let someone bully North Korea, even if North Korea probably deserves it.

That is a very simple view on the matter, I'm sure it is much more complicated, but it does show that China isn't all hugs and kisses with Korea.

Flapjack
September 13th, 2016, 01:22 AM
We need to put real pressure on China to put real pressure on NK. I also believe that the best change for NK is the change that comes from within.

Vlerchan
September 13th, 2016, 10:28 AM
Porpoise101: whilst I understand that China actually exists, in a hypothetical world where the Chinese had come around to our manner of thinking, what would you propose?

I also agree with the rests of your responses to mattsmith.

mattsmith48
September 13th, 2016, 10:42 AM
We need to put real pressure on China to put real pressure on NK. I also believe that the best change for NK is the change that comes from within.

Thank you for proposing real solutions instead of just insulting people.

rioo
September 13th, 2016, 11:37 AM
sometimes I just dont believe it. how they get the money to build atomic reactor there?

Flapjack
September 13th, 2016, 11:40 AM
sometimes I just dont believe it. how they get the money to build atomic reactor there?
God knows xD I suspect it didn't cost that much tbh and the NK government makes money from drugs and the illegal weapons trade.

Vlerchan
September 13th, 2016, 11:51 AM
We need to put real pressure on China to put real pressure on NK.
What sort of pressure should we put on China?

Flapjack
September 13th, 2016, 12:02 PM
What sort of pressure should we put on China?
Nothing involving the military, we should use economic pressure. It would hurt us too but NK is fast becoming too powerful and Chinia is probably the one country that could apply pressure.

It shouldn't be one country either, we need the UK, USA, Russia, Germany, France, India and every other large economy to put economic pressure on China.

mattsmith48
September 13th, 2016, 12:54 PM
Nothing involving the military, we should use economic pressure. It would hurt us too but NK is fast becoming too powerful and Chinia is probably the one country that could apply pressure.

It shouldn't be one country either, we need the UK, USA, Russia, Germany, France, India and every other large economy to put economic pressure on China.

So trade war? It would certainly put more pressure on North Korea but you need to hurt Kim Jong Un directly and doing this would hurt the population more than the leader.

Flapjack
September 13th, 2016, 12:56 PM
So trade war? It would certainly put more pressure on North Korea but you need to hurt Kim Jong Un directly and doing this would hurt the population more than the leader.
I know it would buddy and it is very unfortunate but we can't do war and we can't do nothing either!! We also need to crack down on how they get there money. Educating the people would be good too :)

mattsmith48
September 13th, 2016, 12:59 PM
I know it would buddy and it is very unfortunate but we can't do war and we can't do nothing either!! We also need to crack down on how they get there money. Educating the people would be good too :)

Who do you want to educate?

Flapjack
September 13th, 2016, 01:02 PM
Who do you want to educate?
Ideally everyone but we can't do that, currently we are sending out our scholars to their unis to help educate and tbh that is the best we can do now! They can't say much because the military controls it all but creating critical thinking intellectuals is good in the long term. I believe it was in Vietnam that it was the educating of citizens in unis that lead to a revolution but don't quote me on that :)

What do you suggest we do?

mattsmith48
September 13th, 2016, 01:12 PM
Ideally everyone but we can't do that, currently we are sending out our scholars to their unis to help educate and tbh that is the best we can do now! They can't say much because the military controls it all but creating critical thinking intellectuals is good in the long term. I believe it was in Vietnam that it was the educating of citizens in unis that lead to a revolution but don't quote me on that :)

What do you suggest we do?

I like the idea of educating people of North Korea that is the thing that could really help the population and hurt the leadership of the country. China is their only ally and puting presure on them to do something with a trade war is something that we can try I have doubts it would work but at this point we need to try something new because what we are currently doing isn't working.

Leprous
September 13th, 2016, 02:39 PM
I love how people still think China would rather side with NK. China can't afford not siding with everyone else because well, their economy relies on export and they really can't afford becoming an enemy of the west. Like they may not hate NK but they certainly don't love them.

Drewboyy
September 13th, 2016, 04:05 PM
You mean the same thing that happens every year? Kim Jong Un should just go back to faxing the white house and threatening to blow up movie theaters instead of measuring dicks with us. They worked better

Porpoise101
September 13th, 2016, 04:09 PM
Porpoise101: whilst I understand that China actually exists, in a hypothetical world where the Chinese had come around to our manner of thinking, what would you propose?
If North Korea breaks outside of the Chinese sphere with nuclear technology, I think that the Chinese will start trying to ease tensions. I don't see warfare as a valid option at the risk of nuclear war is too great. If I were China, would use subversive methods. Instead of rounding up North Korean defectors and deporting them, I would keep them and give them refuge. Then I would try to encourage dissent. I would also try to get North Korea to be more open in order to gather intelligence. When the central government falls, a peacekeeping force could be sent to keep nukes out of bad hands.

When Korea is united by the South, China will become its new master, not the US.

Vlerchan
September 13th, 2016, 04:15 PM
[...] we should use economic pressure[.]
The issue here is that if we decide to use up what ammunition we might have we have no deterrent to China engaging in further actions in, for example, the South China Sea. You can also imagine that a trade war would empower anti-Western Hawks who'd be keen to carry out such actions. In a bid to get China to do what we want to do we might end up encouraging them to do the exact things we don't want them to do - or at least aligning incentives so that becomes the greater likelihood.

Not to mention the global recession - the millions of jobs lost - and the fact that our interest rates can't really afford another few basis points to even hope to start dealing with the fallout.

[...] it was in Vietnam that it was the educating of citizens in unis that lead to a revolution [...]
That one didn't quite work out in our interests though.

---

I'd imagine the same of China, by the way, Porpoise101.

Would you propose the US just stand back and let that happen, thouh?

Porpoise101
September 13th, 2016, 04:34 PM
Porpoise101.

Would you propose the US just stand back and let that happen, thouh?
Yes. I don't want to fight with China. They can take East Asia and the Western Pacific for all I care. It is their destiny, so why fight it? Of course, a militaristic culture that the US has won't abide by it.

Vlerchan
September 13th, 2016, 04:52 PM
They can take East Asia and the Western Pacific for all I care. It is their destiny, so why fight it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_stability_theory

That, basically.

On a less serious note, this just got published, and I Lol'd

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160913&t=2&i=1153371803&w=976&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2016-09-13T143558Z_3716_GF10000172779_RTRMADP_0_NORTHKOREA-POLITICS

Seems like Kimmie went on a day trip (http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/north-koreas-supreme-farm-leader?articleId=USRTSNJCJ).

Porpoise101
September 14th, 2016, 03:16 PM
On a less serious note, this just got published, and I Lol'd

image (http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160913&t=2&i=1153371803&w=976&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2016-09-13T143558Z_3716_GF10000172779_RTRMADP_0_NORTHKOREA-POLITICS)

Seems like Kimmie went on a day trip (http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/north-koreas-supreme-farm-leader?articleId=USRTSNJCJ).
I think the reason for this excursion to show food is because the people
are starving again. While the photos are hilarious, I bet there is a more nefarious reasoning for it. Maybe they are doing it to reassure the people.

Paraxiom
September 14th, 2016, 05:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_stability_theory

That, basically.

On a less serious note, this just got published, and I Lol'd

image (http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160913&t=2&i=1153371803&w=976&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2016-09-13T143558Z_3716_GF10000172779_RTRMADP_0_NORTHKOREA-POLITICS)

Seems like Kimmie went on a day trip (http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/north-koreas-supreme-farm-leader?articleId=USRTSNJCJ).

Surely you'd prefer the news from the country itself? :P

http://www.naenara.com.kp/en/news/news_view.php?22+2935

"Seeing corns as big as forearm, well ripe rice ears and other crops with a bright smile on his face, he expressed great satisfaction over the results, noting that every achievement made by the farm would make him feel refreshed and pleasant."

Tastier than nuclear weaponry, I admit.

[ .kp is the country top level domain for the North ]

Flapjack
September 18th, 2016, 10:01 AM
Seems like Kimmie went on a day trip (http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/north-koreas-supreme-farm-leader?articleId=USRTSNJCJ).
I can't get over this photo:
http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160913&t=2&i=1153371804&w=976&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=2016-09-13T143558Z_3716_GF10000144462_RTRMADP_0_NORTHKOREA-AGRICULTURE
looks like he is posing for a dating site photo xD