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Flapjack
August 30th, 2016, 06:21 AM
Heyyy guys!! I was talking to Paraxiom the other day about the people that worry about the chemicals in our food! I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss and I am also throwing in GMOs as they're kinda related :)

Sidenote: I promise to respond to your VM soon Paraxiom, I suck at replying <3

http://i.imgur.com/5ngpUdZ.jpg
I think being aware of chemicals in our foods is important, especially with chemicals like caffeine but to the people that look at a label and see 5 unknown chemicals and panic about how deadly they are, please look them up before posting crap on facebook xD

On the topic of GMOs, I am a massive supporter!!

ThisBougieLife
August 30th, 2016, 11:32 AM
GNO = Girls Night Out

I know that was a typo, but it just seemed funny.

As for GMOs, I don't necessarily think they're all evil, but I would appreciate the labeling. Why that should be such an issue, I don't know. People have the right to know what's in their food.

Flapjack
August 30th, 2016, 11:37 AM
GNO = Girls Night Out

I know that was a typo, but it just seemed funny.

As for GMOs, I don't necessarily think they're all evil, but I would appreciate the labeling. Why that should be such an issue, I don't know. People have the right to know what's in their food.
Oh gosh xD I changed it, thanks for telling me! Yeah I am mixed as to whether or not it should be in the label because if it is it may give the false impression that they're harmful.

Reise
August 30th, 2016, 11:50 AM
http://i.imgur.com/5ngpUdZ.jpg

xD, love it. :')

Okay okay, now serious replies, haha.

Paraxiom
August 30th, 2016, 07:42 PM
Heyyy guys!! I was talking to Paraxiom the other day about the people that worry about the chemicals in our food! I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss and I am also throwing in GMOs as they're kinda related :)

Sidenote: I promise to respond to your VM soon Paraxiom, I suck at replying <3

Is no issue, don't worry about it!

I'll assume that we're talking about food from GMOs, the GMOs being such because of their intended role as for food.



I think being aware of chemicals in our foods is important, especially with chemicals like caffeine but to the people that look at a label and see 5 unknown chemicals and panic about how deadly they are, please look them up before posting crap on facebook xD

First impressions and generalisations are what fuels a lot of this, yes.

I will say though that I am against the addition of 'artificial' / 'higher-tech' chemicals to food which enhances the quality and/or the lifetime of that food, unless it is necessary and/or beneficial. Every artificial (and natural) chemical should be analysed and tested in trials to see if they have any risk of harming those who eat the food they are to be in; if any non-negligible risk is found, the chemical should not be used.

By no means am I saying that artificial chemicals necessarily mean harmful chemicals for humans (DEET is a good counterexample to that generalisation), but I am saying that the artificial ones are greatly more likely to be harmful, and so should be strictly regulated with their use.

In addition to that, all known ingredients in all processed+packaged foods (and cosmetics) should be presented sufficiently with their quantities, names and all; anything else would be at least violation of trust/honesty between a company and their consumer, in my view.

That's my angle on the food additives.



On the topic of GMOs, I am a massive supporter!!

This is where our viewpoints might diverge though :P . What do you mean by a massive supporter?

I am for scientific progress in developing GMOs further, but mainly only for where it is needed. The situations I am talking about would be disease-hit crops which are / were highly important, and/or where necessary / greatly desirable breeding would be too slow to achieve some new characteristics in a crop.

Similar to my stance on food additives, GMO foods should be strictly regulated. I am not for the practice of GMO food production just for the sake of it.

As for GMO animals, I'm more strongly against that in general unless the modifications are minor but ultimately significant for us.

If it's not necessary, it's not worth it. Worth scientific investigation though, but not of any high priority unless necessary as above.


As a comment against another generalisation, there is no scientific evidence that shows the DNA of any organism in food interacting with our bodies in any way, apart from contributing a tiny amount of energy in its digestion. It's not the DNA of an organism that determines its edibility, toxicity and healthiness, it's the bulk chemical content of the organism's (now presumed-dead) cells that determine this. This is one generalisation which is unfortunately a bigger factor in the public perception of GMO, than it should be.

Don't get caught with that slippery slope!

Kawaii Bean
August 30th, 2016, 08:36 PM
Heyyy guys!! I was talking to Paraxiom the other day about the people that worry about the chemicals in our food! I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss and I am also throwing in GMOs as they're kinda related :)

Sidenote: I promise to respond to your VM soon Paraxiom, I suck at replying <3

image (http://i.imgur.com/5ngpUdZ.jpg)
I think being aware of chemicals in our foods is important, especially with chemicals like caffeine but to the people that look at a label and see 5 unknown chemicals and panic about how deadly they are, please look them up before posting crap on facebook xD

On the topic of GMOs, I am a massive supporter!!


I'm already so paranoid about my food as it is. Like, not all the time, but if I stop and think for a second then best believe I'm wondering about what could possibly be in the food I'm eating. I like to watch videos on YouTube and see how some foods are made and the way that it's produced is crazy.
There shouldn't be chemicals in food or drinks. I believe that all sources of food and drinks should be 100% natural and healthy. None of that lab stuff.

Flapjack
August 30th, 2016, 08:46 PM
I'm already so paranoid about my food as it is. Like, not all the time, but if I stop and think for a second then best believe I'm wondering about what could possibly be in the food I'm eating. I like to watch videos on YouTube and see how some foods are made and the way that it's produced is crazy.
There shouldn't be chemicals in food or drinks. I believe that all sources of food and drinks should be 100% natural and healthy. None of that lab stuff.
fdghgZhObSk
Like this video that went viral for a few weeks or so when it was only the Leidenfrost Effect?

Be careful of what you read online buddy! YouTube has also been known to convince people the earth is flap :P

Define what you mean by 'chemicals'?

PlasmaHam
August 30th, 2016, 09:15 PM
Like this video that went viral for a few weeks or so when it was only the Leidenfrost Effect?

And that is why I don't eat at MacDonald's.:P

But in all serious, people really blow chemicals in food way out of proportion, like you said. Most of the chemicals you read on the label are really just extracts from food, like citric acid, despite sciencey sounding names. As for the artificial chemicals, they undergo rigorous testing to meet safety standards. I'm not saying all chemicals in food are good for you though. Recent studies have shown that some artificial sweeteners result in a higher risk of cancer in men. I personally try to avoid artificial sweeteners myself, and I do believe that natural is better for you. But living in paranoia over these chemicals, which at most produce minor negative effects, is foolhardy.

Flapjack
August 30th, 2016, 09:36 PM
This is where our viewpoints might diverge though :P . What do you mean by a massive supporter?

I am for scientific progress in developing GMOs further, but mainly only for where it is needed. The situations I am talking about would be disease-hit crops which are / were highly important, and/or where necessary / greatly desirable breeding would be too slow to achieve some new characteristics in a crop.

Similar to my stance on food additives, GMO foods should be strictly regulated. I am not for the practice of GMO food production just for the sake of it.

As for GMO animals, I'm more strongly against that in general unless the modifications are minor but ultimately significant for us.

If it's not necessary, it's not worth it. Worth scientific investigation though, but not of any high priority unless necessary as above.


As a comment against another generalisation, there is no scientific evidence that shows the DNA of any organism in food interacting with our bodies in any way, apart from contributing a tiny amount of energy in its digestion. It's not the DNA of an organism that determines its edibility, toxicity and healthiness, it's the bulk chemical content of the organism's (now presumed-dead) cells that determine this. This is one generalisation which is unfortunately a bigger factor in the public perception of GMO, than it should be.

Don't get caught with that slippery slope!
I agree 100% with everything you wrote so I don't see our viewpoints diverging anytime soon xD

I love it because it can increase yield which is something we're reallyyy gonna need in the future but also because it can introduce more vitamins to the body like the golden rice!

I should say however I am not at all happy with the corporation's monopoly that is disastrous and is leading many to suicide (http://www.seattleorganicrestaurants.com/vegan-whole-foods/indian-farmers-committing-suicide-monsanto-gm-crops/).

As for animal GMOs I am also a lot more reluctant to give my support. If they can give a cow that will make them resistant to mad cow disease then I would give my support but to increase yield I would say no as I think it would make the animal suffer :)

There are loads of cool things in that field how ever such as.... fluorescent axolotls xD
Uleb3MlZ4JU
When I buy some more axolotls there is a good chance I will buy one of these beauties xD

If you are worried about the ethics buddy, the axolotl is used in scientific research because of their amazing regeneration ability, it can even grow back parts of its brain, the fluorescent axolotls are just a bi product of that research and it doesn't harm them :)

Paraxiom
September 2nd, 2016, 06:20 PM
I like to watch videos on YouTube and see how some foods are made and the way that it's produced is crazy.

I'd prefer not to :P but I get you in how some manufacturing methods are unpleasant to look at at the least.



There shouldn't be chemicals in food or drinks. I believe that all sources of food and drinks should be 100% natural and healthy. None of that lab stuff.

This was my point before though. I don't like this usage of the term 'chemical' as a derogatory word for icky corrupted articifiality. At least 'artificial chemical' is better.

Nearly everything around you is chemical, from the water to the chlorophylls in the leaves. I'm a fan of changing that perhaps even only subconscious mindset, but a big one at that.


But in all serious, people really blow chemicals in food way out of proportion, like you said. Most of the chemicals you read on the label are really just extracts from food, like citric acid, despite sciencey sounding names. As for the artificial chemicals, they undergo rigorous testing to meet safety standards. I'm not saying all chemicals in food are good for you though. Recent studies have shown that some artificial sweeteners result in a higher risk of cancer in men. I personally try to avoid artificial sweeteners myself, and I do believe that natural is better for you. But living in paranoia over these chemicals, which at most produce minor negative effects, is foolhardy.

Exactly; we need a good realistic sense of caution with many things with food and that, but going too far just approaches effective/actual paranoia and generalisation yet again.

As it reminds me, this 'gluten free' advertising and product trend has gone wayyy further and is getting much more intention than it realistically deserves, which should only be with people who are intolerant of gluten. Gluten is not a undesired 'chemical', and it absolutely isn't a toxin to humanity as a whole; pls get that idea out of here.


I agree 100% with everything you wrote so I don't see our viewpoints diverging anytime soon xD

Ah, nicer than way then. :D



I love it because it can increase yield which is something we're reallyyy gonna need in the future but also because it can introduce more vitamins to the body like the golden rice!

GMO would be mainly useful with these things yes, I've heard of the beta-carotene-meets-rice crop, though there appears to be some controversy going on with it in the pragmatic solving-dietary-deficiency way rather than just anti-GMO viewpoints. It's a good project though.



I should say however I am not at all happy with the corporation's monopoly that is disastrous and is leading many to suicide (http://www.seattleorganicrestaurants.com/vegan-whole-foods/indian-farmers-committing-suicide-monsanto-gm-crops/).

Oh absolutely! I am absolutely opposed to GMOs happening in the large company monopolies that we too much of in general (oil companies would be worse, but still). Monsanto is effectively evil.



As for animal GMOs I am also a lot more reluctant to give my support. If they can give a cow that will make them resistant to mad cow disease then I would give my support but to increase yield I would say no as I think it would make the animal suffer :)

I'm for those minor alterations that reduce risk / raise immunity to diseases and that, yes. If it's negligible to the animal but significant to us, then that's okay.

As for GMOs that have their muscle mass bulked up as one example of many possible and actual modifications that have been done beyond strict scientific experimentation levels, that's unnecessary for us and extremely risky for the health for the animal. It brings in hearver morality of course, so it's no longer a mainly resource technology thing anymore.

GMO animals which are relatively majorly modified don't necessarily experience a state of pain/dysphoria/etc appropriate for their degree of sentience, but it's a confident bet that at least a proportion of these animals would experience such.



There are loads of cool things in that field how ever such as.... fluorescent axolotls xD
Uleb3MlZ4JU
When I buy some more axolotls there is a good chance I will buy one of these beauties xD

Fluorescence isn't a major modification if such light wouldn't make much of or any difference to the animal, it shows an example how diverse GMO theory and practice is. There are glow in the dark cats I believe, something useful as your own house disco party element after your hypothetical week of work in the GMO field of course!



If you are worried about the ethics buddy, the axolotl is used in scientific research because of their amazing regeneration ability, it can even grow back parts of its brain, the fluorescent axolotls are just a bi product of that research and it doesn't harm them :)

I'm not opposed to GMO in any generalistic way with paranoia or that, so you don't need to worry if I am disappointed in you :P . I am opposed to a lot within GMO, but by this stage you have a good idea where that is.