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View Full Version : Police Force Muslim Woman To Strip At Beach


Flapjack
August 25th, 2016, 12:13 AM
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I would post my opinion on it but the video sums it up pretty well.

Drewboyy
August 25th, 2016, 12:36 AM
*French police

I'm pretty sure people aren't allowed to wear Crosses in public as well. If anything religious at all Is being *noticeably* shown, it's illegal. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) And Muslim religious clothing happens to attract a lot of attention.

It is a stupid law but if you don't follow it you should expect to be punished for breaking it.

Flapjack
August 25th, 2016, 12:39 AM
*French police

Never claimed it wasn't?

I'm pretty sure people aren't allowed to wear Crosses in public as well. If anything religious at all Is being *noticeably* shown, it's illegal. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
I do believe you are wrong however I am sure Reise can clear that up :)

Periphery
August 25th, 2016, 01:15 AM
If you're gonna do this to the Muslims better prevent the Jews from wearing their religious clothes aswell.

If you take it away from 1 religion take it away from all of them, no exceptions.

Mars
August 25th, 2016, 02:51 AM
There's laws against some things, as stupid as they may be, she had to strip that type of clothing while at the beach. Flapjack It's dumb, yes, but eh

rioo
August 25th, 2016, 05:11 AM
enjoying beach or sunbathing ? is that different now?

PlasmaHam
August 25th, 2016, 09:29 AM
Its arguably infringing on free expression, but its not like Muslim women are given any choice in the matter. Muslim women are subjugated by Islam, forced to wear these full body burkas. And please don't give me any of the,"They want to wear it, it is comfortable." When you are grow up in a religion that oppresses women and basically force them to accept that role as natural, you are going to see them agreeing with the oppression because that is all they know. And if you look at the Olympics, all the cases of women in burkinis going into heat exhaution, I doubt that was comfortable.

I still think the UK has it worse, with its thought and speech police, and deeming looking at a woman the wrong way as a hate crime.

Vlerchan
August 25th, 2016, 09:37 AM
Muslim women are subjugated by Islam, forced to wear these full body burkas.
I know a pair of Muslim sisters. One chooses to wear a Hijab and the other chooses not to.

You'll find - in general - amongst Muslims in the West that it is a lot more down to personal choice. Even then there are also Islamic countries where a large proportion of woman choose not to wear them - and one or two where it is banned I believe.

PlasmaHam
August 25th, 2016, 09:49 AM
Almost all Muslim scholars believe that women should cover themselves. The Hijab, as you talked of, is disputed about whether or not it should be used, but that is not the point. The Quran clearly says a woman of marriageable age should have to cover all except their hands and possibly face. My case still stands.

Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them.

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

024.060
YUSUFALI: Such elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage,- there is no blame on them if they lay aside their (outer) garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty: but it is best for them to be modest: and Allah is One Who sees and knows all things.

Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.

Vlerchan
August 25th, 2016, 09:59 AM
Almost all Muslim scholars believe that women should cover themselves. The Hijab, as you talked of, is disputed about whether or not it should be used, but that is not the point. The Quran clearly says a woman of marriageable age should have to cover all except their hands and possibly face. My case still stands.
Catholic scholars also engage in a lot of discussion and make a lot of claims that the Catholic faithful don't follow. It'd be incorrect to claim that because Catholic scholars discuss and encourage it - that Catholics are forced to do these things. (In fact: it doesn't follow at all).

On a social level - i.e. on the level that Muslims express themselves at - what I described is true.

Dalcourt
August 25th, 2016, 10:03 AM
Please not again a religious discusion.

In France they passed this law not to wear those burkinis on the beaches so yeah police is allowed to enforce this law.

Okay this law might kinda infringe certain personal rights but so so might others. If people are against this law they might go to court over it and see if they can change it.

But as a whole the actions are justified. If you live or if you are on vacation in a country you have to respect the laws of this country.

Mars
August 25th, 2016, 10:49 AM
Like Peanut_ said, don't turn this into a religious debate. This isn't ROTW and we have enough of those.

PlasmaHam
August 25th, 2016, 11:45 AM
Like Peanut_ said, don't turn this into a religious debate. This isn't ROTW and we have enough of those.

Understood, but it does seem odd we allow certain debates on the news thread and not others.

Periphery
August 25th, 2016, 11:55 AM
Understood, but it does seem odd we allow certain debates on the news thread and not others.

Because this happens over and over again and nobody wins in the "Muslims are abusive to women" debate and it has no use, this is about if people are allowed to express their religion, not to bash the religion.

PlasmaHam
August 25th, 2016, 12:06 PM
Because this happens over and over again and nobody wins in the "Muslims are abusive to women" debate and it has no use, this is about if people are allowed to express their religion, not to bash the religion.

Tell that to mattsmith48 the next time he interrupts political debates to rant about Christianity. But no more of this discussion, my luck I'll probably get banned for having opposing views.

But I still think that the burka is supporting oppression of women, and that it is not a proud attire like some like to say.

ThisBougieLife
August 25th, 2016, 12:20 PM
France doesn't really learn much from their own history, do they? The more they make it clear they treat Muslims differently, the more "radicals" focus on France and convince people Muslims are oppressed there.

Mars
August 25th, 2016, 12:22 PM
Again, do not start a religious debate here. If anyone continues, your posts will be deleted. We also do not tolerate bashing others religions and beliefs.

Periphery
August 25th, 2016, 01:01 PM
France doesn't really learn much from their own history, do they? The more they make it clear they treat Muslims differently, the more "radicals" focus on France and convince people Muslims are oppressed there.

They should also do this to the Jews, and nuns, and any other religious person who wears different things for their religion. Radicals focus on France anyway, same for pretty much most of Western Europe.

Reise
August 25th, 2016, 01:06 PM
I do believe you are wrong however I am sure Reise can clear that up :)
The only cross that you're not allowed to wear is the Swastika. Haha.

Dalcourt
August 25th, 2016, 01:33 PM
They should also do this to the Jews, and nuns, and any other religious person who wears different things for their religion. Radicals focus on France anyway, same for pretty much most of Western Europe.

I don't think French nuns go to the beaches in their outfits.
Jews don't also claim that there's antisemitism in France but generally they don't stick out so much like Muslims do.
France is a Christian country and if the majority of the country is against showing symbols of other religions I guess those people have to accept it. I saw on the news today that 60% of the French support the burkini ban and 30% are indifferent...so that's what public opinion there seems to look like.

Westerners have to stick to certain norms and dresscodes too if they want to visit Islamic countries or work and live there so I guess it's only fair to let the French do their thing.

ThisBougieLife
August 25th, 2016, 02:06 PM
^That's a key point of course. A Westerner can't move to any Islamic nation and expect to behave exactly the same as they did in their home country. There are different laws and customs in Islamic countries that they would be expected to follow, even if they clash with their Western values. Yet if this occurs in the opposite direction it's often condemned as "oppressive". Do we just expect better from Western countries? Why?

France has the right to pass these laws, but at the same time, unlike a required veil law of Saudi Arabia, this isn't something that has always been a part of French culture, these laws were passed recently to target specific immigrants. So while there are some parallels, they are not exactly parallel cases.

PlasmaHam
August 25th, 2016, 02:33 PM
ThisBougieLife Good post, I really like that you act sensible.

I agree with you in regards to your Europe/Middle East comparison. People harp all over the West for not being inclusive enough for Muslims. Yet when you look at some Muslim countries, you see legal slavery, rape, and other horrific acts. Many of these migrants lived in those sorts of countries, and know no other way.

Many of these migrants are expecting Europe to adapt to them, instead of them adapting to Europe. That is, in my opinion, the source of many of these counter-migrant legislations. You have the Muslim communities that no one else is suppose to go in throughout Europe. Sharia courts holding trials and attempting to ban bacon!

I'll get a bit off topic here, but that last one is funny. Muslim groups have been attempting to ban all pork products from public restaurants and schools in many Northern European cities and towns. Now, you know how much those Germans and such like their ham and sausage. In response to the Muslims, a few cities actually passed laws mandating restaurants and public schools to serve pork. Apparently pork is such a traditional food that they wanted to make sure no one took it away. IDK why I brought that up, I just found that hilarious.

Mars
August 25th, 2016, 02:42 PM
I'll get a bit off topic here, but that last one is funny. Muslim groups have been attempting to ban all pork products from public restaurants and schools in many Northern European cities and towns. Now, you know how much those Germans and such like their ham and sausage. In response to the Muslims, a few cities actually passed laws mandating restaurants and public schools to serve pork. Apparently pork is such a traditional food that they wanted to make sure no one took it away. IDK why I brought that up, I just found that hilarious.
I literally... Just said... Don't go off topic..........

And what do you continue to do? Oh, that's right, go off topic. You aren't going to get "banned" because you have opposing views, it's because you refuse to listen and continue to do what you want, even when staff say otherwise.

ThisBougieLife Good post, I really like that you act sensible.

Yet when you look at some Muslim countries, you see legal slavery, rape, and other horrific acts
Also, don't bait people with shit like this^ when I literally just fucking said not to. Literally. Check the last page.

The next person to go off topic or start an argument, their posts will be deleted and this thread will be locked.

Flapjack
August 25th, 2016, 02:44 PM
^That's a key point of course. A Westerner can't move to any Islamic nation and expect to behave exactly the same as they did in their home country. There are different laws and customs in Islamic countries that they would be expected to follow, even if they clash with their Western values. Yet if this occurs in the opposite direction it's often condemned as "oppressive". Do we just expect better from Western countries? Why?

I deem it oppressive whatever country makes laws like that. Yes I expect better from a Western country because they are supposed to be free and not oppressive.

Just because another country does bad stuff, does not make it okay for the US to do the same.

Mars
August 25th, 2016, 02:48 PM
Locking thread per OP request.

As for the rest of you, please take note of staff warnings, and if you see an off topic post or baiting post, report it and don't reply.

:locked: