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View Full Version : is Russia a threat?


phuckphace
August 17th, 2016, 08:38 PM
maybe if you are Western imperialist))))) suka blyat idi nahui)))

foreign-policy wise Hillary is Bush 2.0 aka neocon as fuck so if you were expecting anything different you're in for a huge letdown fam

on that note it's also extremely lol-worthy that the Democrats are the new warmongering neocon party in the lineup now that the GOP has shifted to the actual-right behind our golden god-emperor. back when the current year was 2004, it was totally "hip" to be a young Democrat and oppose the Iraq war for all the coolest, hippest reasons: the occupant of the White House was "R" and the people being bombed were brown, so the Left deemed it worthy of opposing. now in mid-2016 we're actually seeing Republican voters saying "maybe if we stay home this time and wait it out it'll be better for us" while the Democrats literally want to start WWIII with Russia because Putin made some degenerates cry into their organic fair-trade vodka. top kek. crazy shit yo

[A]s someone that opposes the Iraq war and past engagements in the ME, but supports containing Russia, that's not because I'm anti-war but because in the case of Russia, containing them is long-run optimal. Remember, Russia has no natural geopolitical anchor, it's security can only be founded in expansion, and the forming considerable buffers in cold-lands. Letting it do that, after spending literally 200 years pushing it back to it's current borders, because Westerners - and by this I mean, US citizens - have decided to have a crisis of confidence about their historic role, is nothing short of fucking nuts.

it's been my impression for a while that Western antagonism of Russia is basically a series of poorly-disguised attempts by the West to keep antiquated Cold War rivalries, and their jobs, alive. since the Cold War stuff doesn't fly anymore it was given an update with a human-rights/culture-war gloss over it.

I hear about Russian expansionism frequently from my Eastern European friends - to hear them talk, Moscow wants the Baltic states bad and isn't gonna stop until they can wrench Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia from NATO's grip. except for the fact that, as far as I know the Baltic states are all service economies and have few if any natural resources, certainly a lot less than Russia itself. is Moscow really going to invade Eastern Europe and risk WWIII just to add a few burger joints to its economy?

while I'm not a Russophile, I'm simply unable to muster as much dislike for Russia as I'm apparently supposed to. Russians are too similar to us in outward appearance to make that work, plus it's not Russians that stay at the top of the news cycle with their frequent suicide bombings and mass shootings.

ThisBougieLife
August 17th, 2016, 09:02 PM
I actually am a bit of a Russophile (I love the music, the literature, the history, and the language), though I'm not completely apologetic of the country and its actions. I could write a book on all I find troubling about Putin, but I agree that Western paranoia about Russia is incredibly exaggerated, and much of it is prolonging a conflict between the West and Russia that should have been dead and buried decades ago.

I don't believe that Russia is a threat to the United States or to most of Europe. However, we can't deny some of their aggressive actions in Ukraine, including, but not limited to, the annexation of Crimea.

Vlerchan
August 17th, 2016, 09:23 PM
except for the fact that, as far as I know the Baltic states are all service economies and have few if any natural resources, certainly a lot less than Russia itself.
The current arrangements renders the Baltic an allied lake and contains the Russian Northern fleet which undermines their position vis--vis Scandinavia.

There's also the no-geopolitical-anchor case where Russia's entire defence rests on attrition.

is Moscow really going to invade Eastern Europe and risk WWIII just to add a few burger joints to its economy?
The reason it's risking WWIII in the first place is because of allied commitments to the region.

---

It's also a competitor for important trade and gas routes in Central Asia and to-be-important routes in the Arctic.

Cadanance00
August 18th, 2016, 12:09 AM
Well they ain't gonna nuke us. No reason. Putin (whose name means whore in French) wants to shore up his control and popularity with a public that's suffering under his corrupt and incompetent government. So he wants to nibble back parts of the old Russian/Soviet empire. Places on the border with Russian-speaking people are at risk, such as the Baltics.

Plenty of people want to start the cold war up again as it was, and is, insanely profitable for war industries.

I have a theory: We never had a nuclear war because nobody could figure out how to make a profit on it. It is tremendously profitable to prepare for one, so we've done a lot of that for a long time.

Reise
August 18th, 2016, 06:15 AM
Putin (whose name means whore in French)

Meh, not really.


Plenty of people want to start the cold war up again as it was, and is, insanely profitable for war industries.

Plenty of localized wars that don't significantly threaten the stability of developed countries are always profitable. And there was a huge fucking load of them during the Cold War. Even after though.


I have a theory: We never had a nuclear war because nobody could figure out how to make a profit on it. It is tremendously profitable to prepare for one, so we've done a lot of that for a long time.
We never had a nuclear war because no party involved ever needed to launch an offensive nuclear missile.
That's pretty much a huge damn good fact.
And tremendously profitable idk, for who except great arms dealers?

Flapjack
August 18th, 2016, 08:58 AM
I would like to think they're not a threat in terms of war because neither side wants that to happen but they are provoking.

I would say the threat of Russia is more than just their military however, Putin has ties to Trump which are questionable to say the least. It is also said that Russian hackers hacked the DNC. Russia is keen to take over more land and Putin cut every government department aside from defence, which he increased.

mattsmith48
August 18th, 2016, 11:37 AM
Cadanance00 Reise The reason we never had a nuclear war is because no one wants to be the country to start it and using nuclear weapons first almost guarantee the total destruction of that country. Every countries who have nukes with the exception of Israel and North Korea have publicaly said they will only use their nuclear weapons as retaliation for a nuclear attack.

Arkansasguy
August 18th, 2016, 11:59 AM
maybe if you are Western imperialist))))) suka blyat idi nahui)))



it's been my impression for a while that Western antagonism of Russia is basically a series of poorly-disguised attempts by the West to keep antiquated Cold War rivalries, and their jobs, alive. since the Cold War stuff doesn't fly anymore it was given an update with a human-rights/culture-war gloss over it.

I hear about Russian expansionism frequently from my Eastern European friends - to hear them talk, Moscow wants the Baltic states bad and isn't gonna stop until they can wrench Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia from NATO's grip. except for the fact that, as far as I know the Baltic states are all service economies and have few if any natural resources, certainly a lot less than Russia itself. is Moscow really going to invade Eastern Europe and risk WWIII just to add a few burger joints to its economy?

while I'm not a Russophile, I'm simply unable to muster as much dislike for Russia as I'm apparently supposed to. Russians are too similar to us in outward appearance to make that work, plus it's not Russians that stay at the top of the news cycle with their frequent suicide bombings and mass shootings.

We should be building friendly relations with Russia. They'd probably be more reliable than most of outlet Western European allies.

Of course, this should go along with ceasing to fund terrorists, as our European allies and us are wont to do.

Periphery
August 18th, 2016, 12:18 PM
We should be building friendly relations with Russia. They'd probably be more reliable than most of outlet Western European allies.

Of course, this should go along with ceasing to fund terrorists, as our European allies and us are wont to do.

Actually I wouldn't exactly call them more reliable. Putin's the kind of guy to use every leader he can get on his side. There's a reason he's befriending Trump you know.

Reise
August 18th, 2016, 12:40 PM
Cadanance00 Reise The reason we never had a nuclear war is because no one wants to be the country to start it and using nuclear weapons first almost guarantee the total destruction of that country. Every countries who have nukes with the exception of Israel and North Korea have publicaly said they will only use their nuclear weapons as retaliation for a nuclear attack.
This is exactly what I said.
USSR and the USA (as well as Europeans nuclear powers like the UK and France) were only ready to launch missiles in case of a war, and more precisely a direct menace on their territory.
Nobody wanted to attack unless they had to, this is why I talked about need.

On the other side Cadanance00 is wrong, it wasn't a matter of what was profitable or not, it was a matter of whether or not you had to do it to defend yourself.

phuckphace
August 18th, 2016, 01:07 PM
daily reminder that Kennedy almost got us nuked due to being a heroin-addicted retard who couldn't keep it in his pants for one second

it's actually pretty difficult to fuck up nuclear diplomacy (both sides have a natural incentive to avoid launching their nukes if possible) but fucking John F "Limousine Ride to the Other Side" Kennedy somehow got us to the brink of nuclear holocaust through a haze of opiates and female staffer poon. Oswald literally saved us all/did nothing wrong.

Reise
August 18th, 2016, 01:21 PM
daily reminder that Kennedy almost got us nuked due to being a heroin-addicted retard who couldn't keep it in his pants for one second

it's actually pretty difficult to fuck up nuclear diplomacy (both sides have a natural incentive to avoid launching their nukes if possible) but fucking John F "Limousine Ride to the Other Side" Kennedy somehow got us to the brink of nuclear holocaust through a haze of opiates and female staffer poon. Oswald literally saved us all/did nothing wrong.
watt

Porpoise101
August 18th, 2016, 02:58 PM
This question isn't very clear. If there is a threat, there is always someone receiving it. If we are from an American perspective, the NATO club is pretty safe from Russian aggression but other countries, not so much. Western and Central Europe are mostly safe from Russia as a whole because there is a buffer of non aligned countries between Russia (except at Konigsburg, where there is a military buildup). The Caucasian countries and Central Asian -stans all consider Russia to be a massive military threat, which is why they ally with Russia and follow Putin's beck and call. Either that, or they get manhandled by the Russian Bear like what happened to Georgia.

Arkansasguy
August 18th, 2016, 05:13 PM
Actually I wouldn't exactly call them more reliable. Putin's the kind of guy to use every leader he can get on his side. There's a reason he's befriending Trump you know.

What Trump and Putin have in common is that they're both patriots.

mattsmith48
August 18th, 2016, 05:37 PM
Actually I wouldn't exactly call them more reliable. Putin's the kind of guy to use every leader he can get on his side. There's a reason he's befriending Trump you know.

Yeah because he owe them money

Periphery
August 18th, 2016, 11:35 PM
What Trump and Putin have in common is that they're both patriots.

The difference here is that Putin knows exactly what he's doing.

Yeah because he owe them money

And because he knows how easy it is to use Trump for whatever he wants.

mattsmith48
August 19th, 2016, 06:02 PM
And because he knows how easy it is to use Trump for whatever he wants.

Yeah tell that to the republican party

Flapjack
August 19th, 2016, 08:22 PM
What Trump and Putin have in common is that they're both patriots.
Or Putin is using Trump because Trump needs Russian loans and support because US banks won't touch him? 6 bankruptcies will do that to a guy.

Porpoise101
August 19th, 2016, 08:22 PM
Thoughts on the conspiracy theory that Paul Manafort (former Trump campaign chief until a few days ago) has been heavily influenced by Putin? I do think that it is a little odd that Manafort and Yanukovich (a well known Russian puppet and former head of Ukraine) have close ties.

phuckphace If you are not convinced about the geopolitical threat of Russia, I would also consider them a threat on another front. Like China (and even the US), Russia churns out billionaire oligarch types that often have ties to organized crime. This causes all sorts of international problems. If Russia isn't bad for expanding militarily, it is bad for letting it's diseases flood throughout the world.

phuckphace
August 19th, 2016, 08:56 PM
I recognize that Russia is dystopian and corrupt (hence why I find Russophilia in the far-right bizarre) but the point you missed is that for all their flaws the alternative is worse.

the actual, real and tangible threats the West faces don't wear fur hats and swill vodka - they wear keffiyeh and don't swill vodka, although this is apparently a difficult concept for some. a recent shitpost from a certain notorious shitposter recently claimed that "Trump isn't only a threat to the USA but to the whole world" as if the whole population replacement scheme of the NWO isn't a thing, and benign civic nationalism is more to be feared than the West being inundated with radical Third World poors.

tl;dr Russia sucks, but their globalist enemies are worse

Flapjack
August 20th, 2016, 11:16 AM
the actual, real and tangible threats the West faces don't wear fur hats and swill vodka - they wear keffiyeh
Stereotyping much.
a recent shitpost from a certain notorious shitposter recently claimed that "Trump isn't only a threat to the USA but to the whole world" as if the whole population replacement scheme of the NWO isn't a thing, and benign civic nationalism is more to be feared than the West being inundated with radical Third World poors.

Ya know you could have just mentioned me :D:D

How does me saying "Trump isn't only a threat to the USA but to the whole world" make you think that I think Trump is the only threat to the world?

What is the NWO? I googled it and the new world order came up...

Again just because I said Trump is a thread does not mean I don't think other threats are a threat xD


Russia sucks, but their globalist enemies are worse
What is wrong with globalism? :P

Professional Russian
August 20th, 2016, 11:56 AM
Speaking for the people of russia, since i am the professional, all we want to do is bring good vodka to he west. no more no less

Vlerchan
August 20th, 2016, 02:11 PM
I agree with Porpoise101. I also don't feel we face a threat from Russia, at the moment, but containing the emergence of a threat should still be a centre-piece of European foreign policy.

the actual, real and tangible threats the West faces don't wear fur hats and swill vodka
Last night - rather - my investment-banker friends and I swilled whiskey (bushmills, for me), traded drinking techniques, and reminisced about the time before crash, when even the lowliest associate could leave their credit card behind the bar and have a good night. It was a good cap to a week where I feel we made major progress on scheming the heroic white proletariat into trading in their culture for a Toyota (Ricardo, PBUH).

Sonicomsk
August 26th, 2016, 06:54 AM
all we want to do is bring good vodka to he west. no more no less
this guy is right, you know


in my opinon, I don't think my country can be a treat to Europe or United States. maybe it could be a few years ago, after Crimea or Ukraine situation, but now [politic] things are getting more stable, from my point of view. Maybe after Clinton will become president, something would change.
honestly everyone who can move away from here do this, because life[if you're not a rich son of mayor, of course] is getting worse and worse everyday. I hope one day I'll emigrate too.

https://pp.vk.me/c622526/v622526195/1fd8/QTyGEKUEcYY.jpg

Paraxiom
August 26th, 2016, 06:12 PM
I see it as a threat to the social and/or political and/or economic stability/sustenance for other countries in much the same general way as any very powerful and large state would be, by the potential of what it can influence and act on.

I do not see it as 'the enemy' in any convenient us-them manner though, which I feel western media has been implicitly showing in places. The US is a threat in similar ways and degrees to Russia.

I imagine that Russian media is not so fond of the US and its actions, which brings up what I see as a relativity of who 'real enemy' around. Paraphrasing what Philip DeFranco recently said on youtube, the media has the ability to control what the truth/reality is because perception effectively sets the truth.

I'm not necessarily implying agendas or anything - even some hypothetical ideally objective lone media source would have the ability to control what the truth is to the target population, because without this media source there is an absence of knowing any truth or falsehood - perception fuels judgement of what is true/false (or right/wrong), and the perception has to be about some stuff, this set of stuff usually/always being presented by media.

Vlerchan
August 26th, 2016, 06:32 PM
honestly everyone who can move away from here do this, because life[if you're not a rich son of mayor, of course] is getting worse and worse everyday. I hope one day I'll emigrate too.
This is real interesting, since, at least in the West, you don't hear a huge amount about the Russian public's gripes with the current state of affairs (probably, because we don't listen).

Would you be able to expand on what it's actually like for someone reasonably middle-class?

phuckphace
August 27th, 2016, 10:05 AM
This is real interesting, since, at least in the West, you don't hear a huge amount about the Russian public's gripes with the current state of affairs (probably, because we don't listen).

Would you be able to expand on what it's actually like for someone reasonably middle-class?

I'm curious as to his answer but from speaking with numerous Russians online my impression is that Russia (and Ukraine even) is pretty much like anywhere else in the sense that it's great if you have money but blows pretty hard if you don't, and they mostly didn't so the usual summary was something along the lines of "it blows."

it makes absolute sense to me since the US has a lot of places where money will buy you the nicest digs you can afford, smack dab in the middle of a burning Mad Max ruin like LA

Porpoise101
August 27th, 2016, 05:34 PM
This is real interesting, since, at least in the West, you don't hear a huge amount about the Russian public's gripes with the current state of affairs (probably, because we don't listen).
I am excited to see how this will affect the Russian Duma Elections go this September. I am actually more interested to see the results of that than the US ones honestly. I doubt Putin's party will fall, but how these turn out may reflect onto the Presidential Elections.

jamie_n5
August 28th, 2016, 12:43 PM
I think we are getting along pretty well with Russia these days.
I we can just learn to keep our noses out of other countries business
and worry about solving our own problems things would be better.