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View Full Version : in space, no one can hear your bigoted microaggressions


phuckphace
August 10th, 2016, 04:02 AM
so I was chatting with one of those techno-futurists the other day who assured me (possibly pledging with hand on the holy iPad idk it was a text convo) that in the soonish/not so remote future technological progress will erase racial and national distinctions and humans will just all blend together in one. the point of stating this was to assert that racism will die out along with those former distinctions.

so you know me, I'm calling bullshit on this. while I think the feasibility of space colonization itself is a tricky subject but I find it especially dubious that somehow racism will suddenly stop mattering right around the time the iPhone 50 with a quantum cpu drops. also the thing to keep in mind about technological progress is that above all else, it gives us new ways to kill each other more efficiently. I awared the guy to what would actually happen, but I think I offended him in the process by blaspheming the prophet Richard Stallman (peace be upon him) whoops

what do you guys think, will race still matter or be a thing in 400, 500, 600 years? I say it will at least as long as modern humans are still recognizable.

Mars
August 10th, 2016, 05:09 AM
I think it will always be an idea, because humans will always leave egos and pride and want to one up each other. However, it being a massive thing like it is today, no. I don't think that will be the case in 300/400/500 years from now. (Hopefully)

Gwen
August 10th, 2016, 11:14 AM
Someone will always make it a point to bring it up, you can't avoid some dumbass trying to make every argument and topic a racial issue if possible. Racists probably aren't going to fully die out 100% and people using race as a tool to guilt others or boost themselves above the rest aren't going anywhere within the next 100 years I'd say. It may not be the same as it is today but surely there will be a time in 2516 that statistically latino space police shoot to kill on non-hostile asians more often than any other race and we get another clown car of unneeded politics and hostility.

Flapjack
August 10th, 2016, 11:30 AM
Yeah I think your friend is right:) I think stuff like islamophobia will die out as more and more people meet Muslims and become friends with them. The internet is a great way for that to happen and as we get more connected more will become friends with them.

I also believe that the way to defeat racists, xenophobes and other bigots is through education and tech can help educate them. In a few centuries there will be no such thing as racism.

Dalcourt
August 10th, 2016, 12:10 PM
Have you seen that one South Park episode with those new immigrants from the future? The whole population of the future had the same brownish color...from mixing all races together and a language that had developed from all languages or so...it had the typical South Park humor but actually showed how the future could look like if we all accept mixing with each other.

If humanity will ever do that I'm not sure...we are all too egotistic and love our individuality way too much.
Maybe there will be even more separation like conquering individual planets like one for Muslims one or Asians one for Blacks...and there will be our own Star Wars going on then?

Porpoise101
August 10th, 2016, 03:13 PM
I think people will become more xenophobic and tribalised (is that a word?). Once everyone has their little personal spaceship like the Jetsons, we will all separate and congregate with those we are similar to. By class, race, religion, ethnicity, it doesn't matter take your pick. Each group will ditch the then-cesspool of Earth and go on their own.

Factor in the possibility of designer children, asexual reproduction, and more, and you've got the perfect storm.

Reise
August 10th, 2016, 03:16 PM
I think people will become more xenophobic and tribalised (is that a word?). Once everyone has their little personal spaceship like the Jetsons, we will all separate and congregate with those we are similar to. By class, race, religion, ethnicity, it doesn't matter take your pick. Each group will ditch the then-cesspool of Earth and go on their own.

Factor in the possibility of designer children, asexual reproduction, and more, and you've got the perfect storm.
Mind explain?

Porpoise101
August 10th, 2016, 03:27 PM
Mind explain?
If we are talking about the deep future, we don't even know the full possibilities. That being said, I believe that humanity will develop technology to circumvent our natural limitations. Aging, sexual reproduction, and genetic flaws are all considered limitations. I am almost certain that reactionaries will try to stop these developments, but they will fail because of the temptation to conquer our innate enemies is too strong.

If space colonization is possible the technology will be 'democratized' and made available to all in time. This happened with guns, computers, and space age tech like TV and straws. Eventually individuals will be able to assemble crews of people. These people will probably have the same ideals as each other. And they will probably be exclusively from the upper classes at the advent of the technology. Maybe they will just go on their own. Once we can reliably asexually reproduce, then there is no need to bring companions. People will be able to go off on their own in this future, settling down on any planet. They start their own tribes and own society. This will separate us as a species on an unprecedented level. It might even result in the creation of new human subspecies in time.

Of course, this is just all of my speculation. Who knows if this is possible?

Reise
August 10th, 2016, 03:49 PM
If we are talking about the deep future, we don't even know the full possibilities. That being said, I believe that humanity will develop technology to circumvent our natural limitations. Aging, sexual reproduction, and genetic flaws are all considered limitations. I am almost certain that reactionaries will try to stop these developments, but they will fail because of the temptation to conquer our innate enemies is too strong.
This does not explain your previous thoughts (it undermines them actually).


If space colonization is possible the technology will be 'democratized' and made available to all in time.
You consider that interplanetary travel will be made possible to the public? I'm highly skeptical regarding everyone's ability to handle an exit or enter of a planet's gravitational field. But hey, it's the future!


This happened with guns, computers, and space age tech like TV and straws. Eventually individuals will be able to assemble crews of people.
This is really improbable, the efficiency - and in the absolute, the resources - needed to multiple individuals to live well on a space ship are considerably high. Even though this may be made possible for even several months in the end restocking is needed, and quite quickly.
This would be enough to stop such behavior, in case such technologies are made possible to the public I expect it to turn like actual sea ships.



These people will probably have the same ideals as each other. And they will probably be exclusively from the upper classes at the advent of the technology.
It's really hard for me to imagine how a bunch of rich sons of a bitch would find great the idea to isolate themselves in a space ship away from all livable ground with - at best - a stagnant growth.


Maybe they will just go on their own.
Not sure it is a good idea, even with really advanced technology.


Once we can reliably asexually reproduce, then there is no need to bring companions.
Humans' social characteristic is only limited to reproduction, you sure you haven't forgotten anything?


People will be able to go off on their own in this future, settling down on any planet. They start their own tribes and own society. This will separate us as a species on an unprecedented level. It might even result in the creation of new human subspecies in time.
This is the only part of your post that I sincerely find interesting (for the rest I mean the content, not your thoughts in themselves, no offense bra).
A few meters large of water is enough to delimitate two countries, It is likely that two planets - even with a proper transmission of information, which in our actual state of knowledge kinda impossible - the isolation will be at a never-seen scale.

Porpoise101
August 10th, 2016, 04:12 PM
You consider that interplanetary travel will be made possible to the public? I'm highly skeptical regarding everyone's ability to handle an exit or enter of a planet's gravitational field. But hey, it's the future!

That is what I am thinking. Even if we are unable to handle space travel currently, with bionic technology I think that our physical capabilities could increase.


It's really hard for me to imagine how a bunch of rich sons of a bitch would find great the idea to isolate themselves in a space ship away from all livable ground with - at best - a stagnant growth.

I think there will be some incentive to leave Earth. If the living conditions are poor enough and the environment is polluted enough, some of the upper classes will want to leave. This could be very wrong, but I think that idealistic fools tend to inhabit the upper classes at least as much as the lower ones. I think that these idiots who see themselves as 'explorers' will be the first ones to go.


Humans' social characteristic is only limited to reproduction, you sure you haven't forgotten anything?

Robots and virtual reality may be able fill in the rest of our social needs at that time.


A few meters large of water is enough to delimitate two countries, It is likely that two planets - even with a proper transmission of information, which in our actual state of knowledge kinda impossible - the isolation will be at a never-seen scale.
Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. Even if we do solve the issue of racism or merge together into 'one race' as OP's sci-fi buddy suggested, the separation of mankind on different planets will makes us diverge once more.

Paraxiom
August 10th, 2016, 04:40 PM
so I was chatting with one of those techno-futurists the other day [...]

Not tonymontana by any chance? :D
The memories...


[...] who assured me (possibly pledging with hand on the holy iPad idk it was a text convo) that in the soonish/not so remote future technological progress will erase racial and national distinctions and humans will just all blend together in one. the point of stating this was to assert that racism will die out along with those former distinctions.

so you know me, I'm calling bullshit on this. while I think the feasibility of space colonization itself is a tricky subject but I find it especially dubious that somehow racism will suddenly stop mattering right around the time the iPhone 50 with a quantum cpu drops. also the thing to keep in mind about technological progress is that above all else, it gives us new ways to kill each other more efficiently. I awared the guy to what would actually happen, but I think I offended him in the process by blaspheming the prophet Richard Stallman (peace be upon him) whoops

what do you guys think, will race still matter or be a thing in 400, 500, 600 years? I say it will at least as long as modern humans are still recognizable.

More advanced technology doesn't entail any racism/war/*insert destructive human trait here* reduction, agreed. Basing off past history, more technology will only give most/all aspects of humanity greater ability to do things, good and bad alike.

Could technology be part of an effort to try to bring humanity to a more stable and prosperous form (whatever that may be)? Sure, it could happen. Am I optimistic for it? I always have reserve for it, yes.

Mimikyu Porpoise101

However, do I see it as realistic? Taking the growing situation of human-caused/influenced climate change, along with the unsustainable usage of resources on the Earth (coupled with hundreds of nuclear warheads, powerful robotics, etc), I am open to the possibility that human civilization we know it won't be around by 2100, or even sooner.

If human civilisation does continue on for hundreds of years, who the hell knows how diverse+good+bad it will be at that stage. We can make educated guesses, but only to the accuracy of trends with decades or centuries. I am not even sure what late 2017 will hold!

Technology could easily be the end of us, for which we have ourselves to blame.

Reise

It would be an interesting humanity if we evolved in a double planet system, with a closely habitable Earth about a moon distance away as the other.

Porpoise101
August 10th, 2016, 04:46 PM
Not tonymontana by any chance? :D
The memories...

However, do I see it as realistic? Taking the growing situation of human-caused/influenced climate change, along with the unsustainable usage of resources on the Earth (coupled with hundreds of nuclear warheads, powerful robotics, etc), I am open to the possibility that human civilization we know it won't be around by 2100, or even sooner.

I feel that since we have developed the technology to create some of these messes, we will be able to fix them. Already we at least understand what we are doing wrong and how we can fix it. These are the first steps to any situation where you need to solve problems. Our Earth will most definitely be scarred by our impact. But some of it can be mitigated or reversed.

If human civilization falls, it will be because of weapons of mass destruction, most likely biological warfare. At least with natural disease, our bodies will have some chance for immunity.

Paraxiom
August 10th, 2016, 04:52 PM
I feel that since we have developed the technology to create some of these messes, we will be able to fix them. Already we at least understand what we are doing wrong and how we can fix it. These are the first steps to any situation where you need to solve problems. Our Earth will most definitely be scarred by our impact. But some of it can be mitigated or reversed.

We have the means to undo a lot of what we have collectively done, yes. With (for example) powerful oil companies and governments which have POVs that don't see human climate change as even a thing though, can this happen? I am very sceptical, but then again some people have the amazing ability to flip their views in the face of death when it is too late.



If human civilization falls, it will be because of weapons of mass destruction, most likely biological warfare. At least with natural disease, our bodies will have some chance for immunity.

These are good possibilities yes.

AussieNicholas
August 13th, 2016, 04:38 AM
If people continue to define themselves by race, then racism will always be a part of our world no matter how technology develops. The same applies to gender, sexual orientation, or religion. We won't reach true equality until we start looking at the positives and negatives of individuals rather than focusing on pointless things like race or gender. My signature sums up how I feel.

phuckphace
August 13th, 2016, 08:10 AM
race-relations in space are bound to be interesting. we already know that space will be explored and pioneered by whites (if there are any left) and possibly some Jews, and the Chinese will be right behind us as soon as they can figure out how to reverse-engineer our patented hyperdrive technology.

and for the Third World that gets left behind on Earth, business as usual I guess.

If people continue to define themselves by race, then racism will always be a part of our world no matter how technology develops. The same applies to gender, sexual orientation, or religion. We won't reach true equality until we start looking at the positives and negatives of individuals rather than focusing on pointless things like race or gender. My signature sums up how I feel.

nope. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3411669#post3411669)

Vlerchan
August 13th, 2016, 02:52 PM
Essentially, I think that there is no such right to refuse service in a public places.
Leaving this there in case he is curious.

and for the Third World that gets left behind on Earth, business as usual I guess.
China was one of the poorest countries in the world in both are parent's lifetimes. At the moment, it's Central and West Africa that is undergoing the fastest levels of economic growth, and more promisingly, the greatest return on investment. The one undeniable fact of development economics, is that after a good century of economic divergence, we are now witnessing unprecedented levels of convergences.

---

I also think that people will find silly reasons to be hateful and discriminatory. I imagine this will be de-racialised within space, and will become more-and-more about the mass we live on, otherwise.

Porpoise101
August 13th, 2016, 02:56 PM
and will become more-and-more about the mass we live on, otherwise.
What could be interesting is how the different space colonies will affect our physiology. Maybe on lower-mass objects, people will become taller. Those who live on the edges of solar systems may become more bug-eyed. This could maybe create a new set of 'races' that correspond to the planets.
----
Also I think you messed up on the quote, but in the best way possible :D:D

Vlerchan
August 13th, 2016, 03:05 PM
What could be interesting is how the different space colonies will affect our physiology. Maybe on lower-mass objects, people will become taller.
This is an important part of the Expanse book series starting with Leviathan Wakes. People use the idea of people from low-g colonies being tall and skinny as a primer to discriminate against them.

Also I think you messed up on the quote, but in the best way possible
Just noticed. Glad to see phuckphace has decided to join us in 2016, though :P.