PDA

View Full Version : p101 archive?


Flapjack
July 19th, 2016, 02:44 PM
Hey I am suggesting we get rid of the p101 archive. There are currently 144 guests viewing the section and I am sure that is taking its toll on the server and bearing in mind in the last 10 minuets I have seen the server overloaded 3 times it may help. I don't see the archives doing any good tbh unless I am mistaken?

azure moonstone
July 19th, 2016, 03:30 PM
The was a discussion recently about the P101 Archive in this thread. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2027101) I think all that we could pretty much say about the Archive and why we have it is in there. Trust me, though - I understand the concern about the material and the traffic. :)

Flapjack
July 19th, 2016, 04:14 PM
The was a discussion recently about the P101 Archive in this thread. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2027101) I think all that we could pretty much say about the Archive and why we have it is in there. Trust me, though - I understand the concern about the material and the traffic. :)
Oh gosh sorryyy!! I normally check to see if the same thing had been suggested:)

Uniquemind
July 19th, 2016, 04:28 PM
I think 70% of the archived threads there should be deleted.

They have no merit to them.

But some might be worth retaining or referencing if they held good discussions but are simply there because of inactivity rules.

Flapjack
July 19th, 2016, 04:31 PM
I think 70% of the archived threads there should be deleted.

They have no merit to them.

But some might be worth retaining or referencing if they held good discussions but are simply there because of inactivity rules.
and who's going to sort them? They go back to 2004xD Go check out the thread Emerald linked me, one of the admins explains it:)

Periphery
July 19th, 2016, 06:08 PM
#MakeVTGreatAgain

Vote Jack!

Uranus
July 19th, 2016, 08:59 PM
I too don't see a reason in keeping the archives for the P101 forums. Most of which are not just threads that are bumped, but instead they are disturbing to say the least. While the rules state that storytelling is not allowed, keeping the archives in place is nearly just the same as storytelling (Just take a look at some. There are very....interesting threads there). It's just a new location for explicit material just sitting there waiting for hundreds of potentially new users, who after reading will post threads of equally explicit material. I don't see a reason to keep it, as it is not benefiting VT in anyway. But that's my opinion.

Elysium
July 19th, 2016, 11:13 PM
I too don't see a reason in keeping the archives for the P101 forums. Most of which are not just threads that are bumped, but instead they are disturbing to say the least. While the rules state that storytelling is not allowed, keeping the archives in place is nearly just the same as storytelling (Just take a look at some. There are very....interesting threads there). It's just a new location for explicit material just sitting there waiting for hundreds of potentially new users, who after reading will post threads of equally explicit material. I don't see a reason to keep it, as it is not benefiting VT in anyway. But that's my opinion.
Personally, I kind of like having them there as examples of what not to post about. I don't know if anyone benefits from it, but I know before I was a staff member, I paid a lot of attention to the archives to see what kind of things mods were locking so I knew what to report. And perhaps someone has a question that someone has already asked and they've received answers to, thus dissuading them from posting about it and having it locked again (in a perfect world :P).

I've never had a problem with the archive being there. I can see why you would, but from my point of view, it's just not an issue or enough of one that it would merit scrapping the archive entirely.

Uniquemind
July 20th, 2016, 01:09 AM
Personally, I kind of like having them there as examples of what not to post about. I don't know if anyone benefits from it, but I know before I was a staff member, I paid a lot of attention to the archives to see what kind of things mods were locking so I knew what to report. And perhaps someone has a question that someone has already asked and they've received answers to, thus dissuading them from posting about it and having it locked again (in a perfect world :P).

I've never had a problem with the archive being there. I can see why you would, but from my point of view, it's just not an issue or enough of one that it would merit scrapping the archive entirely.

I guess it's how you look at it then.

From a different perspective, I can see how it is also harmless.

The archive is so massive, that I bet you though that lots of people bypass it entirely just because it's TL;DR. (hence: OP's that make repeat topics we've seen again and again, you can guess they probably didn't read the forums to see if something already in existence answers their question).

I have mixed opinions on SOME of those threads that are graphic in the archive, but are also asking for help on sensitive issues which requires nitty-gritty graphic detail to diagnose a problem and suggest solutions.

Overall I let it go because they're locked and rules are rules, and it's not like those individuals can't find answers elsewhere, it's just they hit a dead-end here.

Oh well not my problem.

Just JT
July 20th, 2016, 05:06 AM
I have mixed feeling on this. On one side I like some of the topics, there are some that are legit, and someone has a legit thing they want to talk about. But maybe it was bumped, or just presented in the wrong way, or went way off the OP's intention maybe???

It's also good to look through like what Elysium said, so you know what not to post, in the innappropriate threads. So that new members can maybe learn from that.

But also, one idea, is what if new threads needed a mod approval for p101 threads before posting them. Yeah I get it might be more work, maybe had a couple volunteers that maybe just do that. And they can even work with the posters on making their post conform to the rules of the forum. Kinda like preventative maintenance

It's a little off topic, but would also help manage the amount of trash getting posted, moderated, then archived.

azure moonstone
July 20th, 2016, 05:44 AM
I think another thing people are forgetting is that a lot of these threads in the P101 Archive are locked because they are bumped. If we just deleted all of the threads in the Archive - we not only are deleting posts of members who are legitimately trying to ask/help with actual puberty concerns (and in some cases help with legit posts in some not-so-legit threads), we would be drastically slashing many members' post counts.

There are threads that do get deleted - things that are (believe it or not) much more graphic than the ones in the Archive, and ones that thankfully most of VT will never see. Trust me when I say we are doing our best to keep this as friendly, helpful, and safe of a community as we possibly can.

ImCoolBeans
July 29th, 2016, 11:28 AM
I'd also like to add that the P101 archive is not taking a massive toll on the server. Those issues were totally unrelated, we are not concerned with saving a little bit of space by deleting those threads.

Periphery
July 31st, 2016, 07:30 PM
Actually instead of removing them can't you make them member only? I feel like that might be a better solution since you guys want to keep them. Making them member only also massivly reduces the guest views which might be...you know...creeps

Flapjack
July 31st, 2016, 07:36 PM
Actually instead of removing them can't you make them member only? I feel like that might be a better solution since you guys want to keep them. Making them member only also massivly reduces the guest views which might be...you know...creeps
I'd say make all of p101 member only. Although wouldn't they just keep on making new accounts?

Amethyst Rose
July 31st, 2016, 07:59 PM
I agree with making P101 member only. But, wouldn't that increase the chance that creeps would make accounts just for the sake of looking at those threads rather than joining for the initial purpose of the site, to seek legitimate advice?

Flapjack
July 31st, 2016, 08:05 PM
I agree with making P101 member only. But, wouldn't that increase the chance that creeps would make accounts just for the sake of looking at those threads rather than joining for the initial purpose of the site, to seek legitimate advice?
Yeahh we have enough fake members as it is tbh! I'd love for it to be members only, if only for the user's privacy.

SethfromMI
July 31st, 2016, 08:48 PM
I'd say make all of p101 member only. Although wouldn't they just keep on making new accounts?

while not a bad suggestion at all (esp considering the creeps who come here for the sole purpose of p101), there are individuals who also first come here because they have puberty related questions and they can see this is a place where they can ask them.

sadly, with the good often comes the bad. I personally was not drawn here by the puberty thread. I was just looking for time to kill, looked up forums and here I am. so you would still get those people as well as people who need help with other problems. you very well would probably get less creeps, but you would also get less people who are indeed asking questions they may not feel comfortable asking other people in real life.

I could support the decision either way, I see the merits in both, it is just something I would factor in why not completely making the p101 members only.

Typhlosion
July 31st, 2016, 08:54 PM
P101 Archive threads appear frequently in search engines, too. At the time of writing, there are 339 active users on VT, 41 registered and another 298 visitors. Of those 339, 146 active users are on P101, being only 4 registered on VT but also 142 visitors! That's almost half of the 298 non-vistors online at the moment!!!

Why would you really want to remove it. It's not just the junk threads, but also the threads that got locked or got old! Unlike modern moderation, if you look further into the P101 archives, many, if not most, of the threads there up to 2013 are not locked. I'm assuming they were moved there for being old. So, a harmless thread in the archives where a guy asks for condom advice (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123285) is perfectly okay for visitors to check out. There are a lot more perfectly okay (P101-wise, at least) threads there.

I don't get it. What is with you guys and P101? Jesus, you guys barely even go there... Just go to your User CP, Edit Options, and exclude P101 from view. Done.

Flapjack
July 31st, 2016, 08:54 PM
while not a bad suggestion at all (esp considering the creeps who come here for the sole purpose of p101), there are individuals who also first come here because they have puberty related questions and they can see this is a place where they can ask them.

sadly, with the good often comes the bad. I personally was not drawn here by the puberty thread. I was just looking for time to kill, looked up forums and here I am. so you would still get those people as well as people who need help with other problems. you very well would probably get less creeps, but you would also get less people who are indeed asking questions they may not feel comfortable asking other people in real life.

I could support the decision either way, I see the merits in both, it is just something I would factor in why not completely making the p101 members only.
Yeah I agree with all of this buddy and I actually think p101 is great and helpful however it is abused is all:)

SethfromMI
July 31st, 2016, 09:05 PM
Yeah I agree with all of this buddy and I actually think p101 is great and helpful however it is abused is all:)

it is hard to know where to draw the line for sure. obviously, the safety of the members is most important and if it means making p101 members only, then that is obviously what should be done. a lot of the threads are so painfully just fishing for stuff.

I think one suggestion I read (maybe in this thread) is people need a certain amount of posts before they at least post in here. now, you would still have people viewing it, but it would at least make it harder to post here and give mods a chance to try to kick potential creeps out.

but when it comes to the archive (which is what this thread was about to begin with) wouldn't eliminating it also help make the servers run smoother (I am oblivious when it comes to these things). if they were placed in the archive they were there for a reason and if they are already there, I can see why one would argue for their removal. even deleting some of them and keeping some of the more helpful ones

Flapjack
July 31st, 2016, 09:19 PM
I think one suggestion I read (maybe in this thread) is people need a certain amount of posts before they at least post in here. now, you would still have people viewing it, but it would at least make it harder to post here and give mods a chance to try to kick potential creeps out.


Oh my goshhh this is actually a reallyy good idea!! Have it enough to discourage creeps but not so high that it discourages those that join just to ask a real puberty related question:) It can be done they've stopped users with <5 posts posting links:)

Periphery
July 31st, 2016, 09:19 PM
I think one suggestion I read (maybe in this thread) is people need a certain amount of posts before they at least post in here. now, you would still have people viewing it, but it would at least make it harder to post here and give mods a chance to try to kick potential creeps out.


This. The amount of <50 post bans in P101 are still common and well yeah this will certainly help to keep them out partially.

Typhlosion
July 31st, 2016, 09:23 PM
This. The amount of <50 post bans in P101 are still common and well yeah this will certainly help to keep them out partially.

I don't get why you're fighting so much for P101 if didn't post there, not this year at least. Why?

Periphery
July 31st, 2016, 09:47 PM
I don't get why you're fighting so much for P101 if didn't post there, not this year at least. Why?

Because I actually want VT to be creep free. You know P101 has a problem. It also affects the group of people joining VT in general. Girls on VT getting unwanted attention from drooling guys etc.

Flapjack
July 31st, 2016, 09:57 PM
I don't get why you're fighting so much for P101 if didn't post there, not this year at least. Why?
Just because he doesn't post there doesn't mean he doesn't care about the VT community:) Bram is a really nice guy like that:') Alsooo I used the word doesn't too much in that but I couldn't think of an alternative :D

Typhlosion
July 31st, 2016, 10:21 PM
Because I actually want VT to be creep free. You know P101 has a problem. It also affects the group of people joining VT in general. Girls on VT getting unwanted attention from drooling guys etc.

No, I don't. I don't know why P101 is a problem. I posted earlier in this thread that I do not think the archives are a problem. If you do not post in P101, are you worried about P101 people invading the rest of the forums or are concerned with just P101?

Periphery
July 31st, 2016, 10:23 PM
No, I don't. I don't know why P101 is a problem. I posted earlier in this thread that I do not think the archives are a problem. If you do not post in P101, are you worried about P101 people invading the rest of the forums or are concerned with just P101?

Extremely explicit content. Creeps. The fact the archives are viewed by 100+ people all the time who are most likely old men. The fact other forums don't see as many frequent posters as P101. The lack of maturity of some posters. The fact they seem to see girls as objects who they can just drool all over.

Yeah no problem.

Typhlosion
July 31st, 2016, 11:17 PM
Extremely explicit content. Creeps. The fact the archives are viewed by 100+ people all the time who are most likely old men. The fact other forums don't see as many frequent posters as P101. The lack of maturity of some posters. The fact they seem to see girls as objects who they can just drool all over.

Yeah no problem.

Have you ever checked the Archives? Most of it is viewed by 100+ people, sure, but what are they seeing?

Here's a screenshot of a page of the archives, page 1000 out of 1760. I chose it because it's a round number and has some pretty old threads, but I didn't choose it regarding quality of the locked threads.

http://i.imgur.com/oL5AQgp.png

Half of those threads were OK, not just creep material. I assume the number would be better, considering that half seems to be a moderator sweep. Heck, here's a better page I passed through clicking till 1000:

http://i.imgur.com/vRAVuRw.png

Extremely explicit content. Creeps. The fact the archives are viewed by 100+ people all the time who are most likely old men. The fact other forums don't see as many frequent posters as P101. The lack of maturity of some posters. The fact they seem to see girls as objects who they can just drool all over.

I don't see that much that would call old men's attention, or anything that objectifies women. The posters might be 13 and confused with hormones, are you expecting them to be too mature? You're 17 and I'm 20, we're on another level, come on. Also, if you want more traffic outside of P101, why would you cut the source of a lot of traffic to VT? Locking the archives would not accomplish more traffic.

Furthermore, if your idea that people prefer going to the P101 archives because of the nastier stuff that's locked away over there, there should be significantly more people looking at the threads in the P101 archives than the other P101 forums. But...

http://i.imgur.com/hcvIRFY.png

That doesn't seem to be true, rather, the distribution seems to be even and proportional. The P101 archives has 1760 pages of threads, accounting for 76% of all threads in the P101 subforums. At the same time, 70% of all users are looking at the Archive, a 6% difference in favor of the newer threads. In favor. Even at a 99% confidence interval, assuming 237 (current users online) the sample size and 8836 (the record amount of users), there should be 707.6% of people on the Archives. 99% of the time, statistically, will the Archives be equally or less populated than the remaining P101 forums. Come on.

Double post merged. ~Elysium

Periphery
August 1st, 2016, 07:51 AM
Typhlosion You were talking about the ENTIRE P101 forum in general, not just the archives. What bothers me in the archives is that you have 100+ people drooling (and you have no idea how old they are or what they are doing) . Would you find the idea of a 50 year old masturbating to a puberty forum appealing? Well me neither.

I never said to cut the source. I said to regulate it. Make it member only. That takes away the disturbing amount of constant views. Also the post limit can make some creeps think twice about joining.

So that means 76% of the threads were locked? Well those guys better get the rules thrown at them aswell don't you think? Locking the archives to members only wouldn't exactly reduce traffic either since the other 2 forums are still there for people to see, and for people to post in.

Endeavour
August 1st, 2016, 10:05 AM
Ok, let's add my opinion. I haven't really read through all of this so apologies if things come up twice.

Making the archives member only is a ridiculous idea. Many of these threads are found quite high up on google, and to make this member only will just increase the number of repeat threads.
And to have post limits I think is a bad idea as well. Many people join up to post in P101, and some (though I should say few) members eventually expand and start posting in other forums. So restricting P101 would mean we would have few new members.

azure moonstone
August 1st, 2016, 10:59 AM
I highly doubt the P101 Archives would ever be made members-only, and for a very simple reason.

Which of these scenarios do you think is better?

1. P101 Forums continue to not be private, and possible "40 year old dudes" (as an example) continue to do what they do - lurking around and browsing these forums from a distance, with the chance they are using this forum as some sort of entertainment...to put it mildly.

2. We make the P101 Forums private, and pretty much take their amusement away from them...probably causing a large and permanent increase of members (these very same "40 year old dudes") joining just for the ability to continue to browse the P101 Archives. This gives us a lot of new members, sure - but at what price? The ones who are browsing the Archives and have new accounts now have access to our other members and can communicate with them. There is a serious safety issue here, and one that I do not like. I happen to take a lot of pride (and personal responsibility, to be honest) that we provide a safe environment to our members. We do catch a great deal of these people who register, as it stands...but we are talking about potentially dozens more every day.

Sure, it's our job as Staff members to do our best to stop the overage people and the ones who have every intention of being inappropriate - from being around other members. Members with actual puberty issues. Members who have been victims of abuse and sexual assault. Members who self harm and/or deal with thoughts of suicide. Members who deal with emotional, mental, anxiety, and self-esteem issues. Can you imagine if we encourage "Archive lurkers" to register here on VT? We'll be dealing with even more predators than we already do, and you can make a very strong case that we are putting vulnerable people in a lot of danger.

Flapjack
August 1st, 2016, 11:37 AM
I highly doubt the P101 Archives would ever be made members-only, and for a very simple reason.

Which of these scenarios do you think is better?

1. P101 Forums continue to not be private, and possible "40 year old dudes" (as an example) continue to do what they do - lurking around and browsing these forums from a distance, with the chance they are using this forum as some sort of entertainment...to put it mildly.

2. We make the P101 Forums private, and pretty much take their amusement away from them...probably causing a large and permanent increase of members (these very same "40 year old dudes") joining just for the ability to continue to browse the P101 Archives. This gives us a lot of new members, sure - but at what price? The ones who are browsing the Archives and have new accounts now have access to our other members and can communicate with them. There is a serious safety issue here, and one that I do not like. I happen to take a lot of pride (and personal responsibility, to be honest) that we provide a safe environment to our members. We do catch a great deal of these people who register, as it stands...but we are talking about potentially dozens more every day.

Sure, it's our job as Staff members to do our best to stop the overage people and the ones who have every intention of being inappropriate - from being around other members. Members with actual puberty issues. Members who have been victims of abuse and sexual assault. Members who self harm and/or deal with thoughts of suicide. Members who deal with emotional, mental, anxiety, and self-esteem issues. Can you imagine if we encourage "Archive lurkers" to register here on VT? We'll be dealing with even more predators than we already do, and you can make a very strong case that we are putting vulnerable people in a lot of danger.
This is why I could support either leaving them public or making them private. I have read your whole post and yeah I agree with everything but I was thinking that if p101 was private then the creeps that stumble across this site won't see the sexual nature of p101 so might just move on? Whereas now they lurk and many still sign up to interact.

I am one of the few people on this site that will defend p101 as I see how great it is and how much it can help real teenagers so don't think I'm one of the haters, I'm just open to ideas about making it better:)

azure moonstone
August 1st, 2016, 11:50 AM
This is why I could support either leaving them public or making them private. I have read your whole post and yeah I agree with everything but I was thinking that if p101 was private then the creeps that stumble across this site won't see the sexual nature of p101 so might just move on? Whereas now they lurk and many still sign up to interact.

I am one of the few people on this site that will defend p101 as I see how great it is and how much it can help real teenagers so don't think I'm one of the haters, I'm just open to ideas about making it better:)

If the whole of P101 was private, then legit potential members wouldn't be able to see it either. Also, like it or not (and I don't, personally)...but results from puberty searches do bring the most traffic to VT as a whole. Just my opinion - it's an "unfortunate reality." I don't agree with it, but I don't agree with the forum as a whole fading away because not many people discover it either.

Either way, creeps are going to be creeps no matter what is done or not done. It's best that we keep them at a distance rather than encourage them to actually sign up.

Typhlosion
August 1st, 2016, 04:29 PM
Typhlosion You were talking about the ENTIRE P101 forum in general, not just the archives. What bothers me in the archives is that you have 100+ people drooling (and you have no idea how old they are or what they are doing) . Would you find the idea of a 50 year old masturbating to a puberty forum appealing? Well me neither.

Okay, what makes you know they are 50 year olds masturbating to this? You also "have no idea how old they are or what they are doing". You are also assuming. Why are you assuming this?

I never said to cut the source. I said to regulate it. Make it member only. That takes away the disturbing amount of constant views. Also the post limit can make some creeps think twice about joining.

That's also constant views to the whole VT forums, and an increase of spam?

So that means 76% of the threads were locked? Well those guys better get the rules thrown at them aswell don't you think? Locking the archives to members only wouldn't exactly reduce traffic either since the other 2 forums are still there for people to see, and for people to post in.

No, it doesn't. It means that old threads are moved there too. If you had bothered to look at my screenshots, most of the threads in those (albeit non-representative) two pages were OK. They weren't creepy or the first thing you think about when you speak of the P101 Archives. There are many legitimate threads there. For your sake, I opened 40 threads of P101 stuff just to comment on their quality and write that on the screenshots.

In fact, if you go to the last page of threads in Puberty For Boys, the most recent thread was last posted in 2013. VT is much older than 2013, that means that older threads were moved to the archives.

Also, in what world would cutting 70% of P101 traffic and at least 30% of VT's total traffic be a good idea? In what world it "wouldn't exactly reduce traffic either since the other 2 forums are still there for people to see, and for people to post in."?

Flapjack
August 1st, 2016, 04:50 PM
If the whole of P101 was private, then legit potential members wouldn't be able to see it either. Also, like it or not (and I don't, personally)...but results from puberty searches do bring the most traffic to VT as a whole. Just my opinion - it's an "unfortunate reality." I don't agree with it, but I don't agree with the forum as a whole fading away because not many people discover it either.

Either way, creeps are going to be creeps no matter what is done or not done. It's best that we keep them at a distance rather than encourage them to actually sign up.
Yeah you're right buddy! It is a difficult one but you've swayed me to the keeping it public side!:)

Periphery
August 1st, 2016, 10:18 PM
Okay, what makes you know they are 50 year olds masturbating to this? You also "have no idea how old they are or what they are doing". You are also assuming. Why are you assuming this?



That's also constant views to the whole VT forums, and an increase of spam?



No, it doesn't. It means that old threads are moved there too. If you had bothered to look at my screenshots, most of the threads in those (albeit non-representative) two pages were OK. They weren't creepy or the first thing you think about when you speak of the P101 Archives. There are many legitimate threads there. For your sake, I opened 40 threads of P101 stuff just to comment on their quality and write that on the screenshots.

In fact, if you go to the last page of threads in Puberty For Boys, the most recent thread was last posted in 2013. VT is much older than 2013, that means that older threads were moved to the archives.

Also, in what world would cutting 70% of P101 traffic and at least 30% of VT's total traffic be a good idea? In what world it "wouldn't exactly reduce traffic either since the other 2 forums are still there for people to see, and for people to post in."?

I am assuming this because it is the internet and there are enough people here who lie about their age and gender. It's the internet, think about it.

Constant views yes, not 100+ at a time.

I think we both have different 'limits' when we see threads as creepy here.

It wouldn't cut the trafic. It would make it member only. The other 2 P101 forums will still remain if archives are made private. It would cut views, not posts.

Typhlosion
August 1st, 2016, 11:47 PM
I am assuming this because it is the internet and there are enough people here who lie about their age and gender. It's the internet, think about it.


I don't think arguing about who or what accesses the internet, neither both of our assumptions, would help anything. Keep in mind that the internet has evolved and most, normal humans, access it too daily. Agree to disagree?

I think we both have different 'limits' when we see threads as creepy here.

Either way, that's up to H&A moderation and not either of us. Frankly, I don't think that's going to change nor should. But I could be projecting.

Constant views yes, not 100+ at a time.

I don't get it, are you worried about server overload or the sheer amount of "creeps"? The former really isn't an issue, I can see what you're going for with the latter, but still not agree.

It wouldn't cut the trafic. It would make it member only. The other 2 P101 forums will still remain if archives are made private. It would cut views, not posts.


I'm not sure you understand how traffic works. Google, and other search engines, have "spiders" that browse and index the whole web, including forums like VT. Previous crawling indexed many of the forums here on VT, including those in P101. Because threads are not organized by Sub-forum, but instead by an individual code (example: http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2027646) moving them to the archives should have a lesser penalty on its indexing.

If, however, the P101 archives were made private, then the crawlers would not be able to access them (as the spiders are not logged in). That would make many links in search results to no longer appear. Those 100+ users might not get here in the first place to then switch to the other active P101s. Or, even if they do, they'll reach page saying they have to register to see the previously public thread and be immediately dissuaded from browsing the site more.

azure moonstone
August 2nd, 2016, 07:25 AM
Locked at OP request. :locked: