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Dyri_14
November 10th, 2015, 05:52 PM
Yesterday I came home from college (private school) and changed my clothes for a pair of overalls / shortalls without a shirt or bra and panties because it was hot weather. How was home my mother called me to go shopping at the supermarket which is within a shopping center, and as it was hot and unwilling to change clothes again as I was. In the shopping center a lady who was with a girl about my age, commented that I should wear a shirt / bra/panties because it was indecent to walk just down the street. I am 14, and am still perfectly flat and hairless anywhere, so I do not think I need them, and once the copper bib. and that the use of only overalls / shortalls is perfectly fine, what do you think?

Kiss Agda (dyri)

Kirina
November 10th, 2015, 07:33 PM
If you don't want to wear panties, don't wear panties.
As it stands. Boys can go without shirt, while girls can't. The argument is that a males chest isn't "sexualized", but we all know that is BS (a strong manly chest is very hot) and it is definitely sexualized.

Society is scared to see nude bodies and we desperately need people like you to change that.

ClaraWho
November 11th, 2015, 12:01 AM
Yesterday I came home from college and changed my clothes for a pair of overalls / shortalls without a shirt or bra and panties because it was hot weather. How was home my mother called me to go shopping at the supermarket which is within a shopping center, and as it was hot and unwilling to change clothes again as I was. In the shopping center a lady who was with a girl about my age, commented that I should wear a shirt / bra/panties because it was indecent to walk just down the street. I am 14, and am still perfectly flat and hairless anywhere, so I do not think I need them, and once the copper bib. and that the use of only overalls / shortalls is perfectly fine, what do you think?

Kiss Agda (dyri)

Firstly, your clothes must have been REALLY revealing for her to notice you wweren't wearing any panties or thong :/.

Secondly, the issue here isn't a feminist one like the girl above is trying to get at. It's a simple matter of not being offensive in public to other people. We don't live in a nudist society, and won't in our lifetime. There's a time and a place to wear nothing, and at a supermarket is definitely not one of them. I agree with the older lady and her daughter.

Lastly, we're going to get a lot of, 'wear what you like, the naked body isn't sexual'. But just picture a creepy old man walking round every now and then flashing his junk at people who don't want to see it...

And that is the issue, it all comes down to if others WANT to be exposed to your naked body, not if you want to expose it around them.

~ Clara

LITTLEANGEL17
November 11th, 2015, 12:09 AM
Hiya good for for round your own thing :yes: I am not sure how much of your body was on show but if your mum was happy with the way you were dressed then it was Nobody's businesses. So more power to you and your mum. Keep it up Dyri :) XX

Dyri_14
November 11th, 2015, 05:33 AM
Firstly, your clothes must have been REALLY revealing for her to notice you wweren't wearing any panties or thong :/.

Secondly, the issue here isn't a feminist one like the girl above is trying to get at. It's a simple matter of not being offensive in public to other people. We don't live in a nudist society, and won't in our lifetime. There's a time and a place to wear nothing, and at a supermarket is definitely not one of them. I agree with the older lady and her daughter.

Lastly, we're going to get a lot of, 'wear what you like, the naked body isn't sexual'. But just picture a creepy old man walking round every now and then flashing his junk at people who don't want to see it...

And that is the issue, it all comes down to if others WANT to be exposed to your naked body, not if you want to expose it around them.


~ Clara


Hello!

I did not do to expose my body (late Blommer) to anyone or be offensive because he was dressed (not naked) with my overwalls without t-shirts, and underwear at that moment was hot and I was too lazy to change clothes to go in an instant to supermarket. I live a place that besides having many beaches at the foot, foreigners (live and vacation), people walk more comfortable, and usually never care what other people wear clothes. Some people are afraid of change and has zero tolerance towards others, because if we think about what can happen to other people who have less pleasant attitudes towards others, never the world go forward, but of course we have to respect the rules of society and the space of the people living in our city, but also the people must have a pervesa mind to sexualize a person's body.


HM overwalls i wear :

http://www.hm.com/us/product/37883?article=37883-B

kiss

Hiya good for you for doing your own thing I am not sure how much of your body was on show but if your mum was happy with the way you were dressed then it was Nobody's businesses. So more power to you and your mum. Keep it up Dyri XX

I do not showed much my body:)

Look here what I used:

http://www.hm.com/us/product/37883?article=37883-B

kiss and always happy !!

If you don't want to wear panties, don't wear panties.
As it stands. Boys can go without shirt, while girls can't. The argument is that a males chest isn't "sexualized", but we all know that is BS (a strong manly chest is very hot) and it is definitely sexualized.

Society is scared to see nude bodies and we desperately need people like you to change that.

hello and thank you for your words of support. I do not do anything on purpose, just this day felt like me go dressed like that because it was hot and also not have anything more to show, because still have chest and hair, aged 14, and I'm not ashamed of my body, clear who do not walk there made little crazy to show why there are rules in society, but also the people must have a pervesa mind to sexualize a person's body.

HM overwalls i wear :

http://www.hm.com/us/product/37883?article=37883-B

kiss

Kirina
November 11th, 2015, 07:36 AM
Firstly, your clothes must have been REALLY revealing for her to notice you wweren't wearing any panties or thong :/.

Secondly, the issue here isn't a feminist one like the girl above is trying to get at. It's a simple matter of not being offensive in public to other people. We don't live in a nudist society, and won't in our lifetime. There's a time and a place to wear nothing, and at a supermarket is definitely not one of them. I agree with the older lady and her daughter.

Lastly, we're going to get a lot of, 'wear what you like, the naked body isn't sexual'. But just picture a creepy old man walking round every now and then flashing his junk at people who don't want to see it...

And that is the issue, it all comes down to if others WANT to be exposed to your naked body, not if you want to expose it around them.

~ Clara
Girls not being able to go shirtless while boys can is a feminist issue. Anyways put that aside and it is still pretty fucking dumb that people is offended by a naked body and to those who get offended by it, big deal, it's not like it will make you sick.

You say the old man is flashing his junk at people that don't want to see it. He is wearing clothes and flashing his junk at people that don't want to see it, this is ill intent. Of course, that is not okay.
But when I picture an already naked old man that doesn't go around and wiggle his dick, but just simply minding his own business. Than that is innocent and nothing wrong, maybe not the most pretty sight but whatever.

ClaraWho
November 11th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Girls not being able to go shirtless while boys can is a feminist issue. Anyways put that aside and it is still pretty fucking dumb that people is offended by a naked body and to those who get offended by it, big deal, it's not like it will make you sick.

You say the old man is flashing his junk at people that don't want to see it. He is wearing clothes and flashing his junk at people that don't want to see it, this is ill intent. Of course, that is not okay.
But when I picture an already naked old man that doesn't go around and wiggle his dick, but just simply minding his own business. Than that is innocent and nothing wrong, maybe not the most pretty sight but whatever.

hello and thank you for your words of support. I do not do anything on purpose, just this day felt like me go dressed like that because it was hot and also not have anything more to show, because still have chest and hair, aged 14, and I'm not ashamed of my body, clear who do not walk there made little crazy to show why there are rules in society, but also the people must have a pervesa mind to sexualize a person's body.

HM overwalls i wear :

http://www.hm.com/us/product/37883?article=37883-B

kiss

Okay, so first things first, your English makes this really difficult to understand what you are saying. I appreciate it isn't your first language, but it makes replying problematic.

Why ask the question if all you want to do is rant about how you should, unlike anyone else in society, be allowed to walk around naked. Seems you have your own viewpoint that is steadfast and in the very minority of what is normal.

People must have a 'perverted mind to sexualise someone's body'. I think you'll find it's actually basic biology? :confused:

It's nothing to do with being 'ashamed of your body' - it's about not exposing yourself in public when it isn't appropriate. Basically your argument is that all of society is wrong, and therefore you should do what you want regardless. Sure, you could go around without showering (because showers are a social construct), but that wouldn't make it socially acceptable.

I know personally I do not want to have to see yours or anyone else's naked body when I'm trying to do my shopping, walk around in a bikini only, but nudity isn't appropriate. And no, I'm not against others being naked per se, just in appropriate locations.

You also might want to consider the value you are placing on your body, if you're willing to just show it to strangers.

Kirina, I'm bored of replying to your broken record of repeated extreme minority views, and your arguments are both hypocritical and make no sense. Please don't call me 'pretty f%#king dumb' for having a different viewpoint, grow up.

~ Clara

Kirina
November 11th, 2015, 06:24 PM
Basically your argument is that all of society is wrong, and therefore you should do what you want regardless.
I find it so weird of you to say that. Look, I know the majority of people think being nude publicly is "inappropriate". However, it shouldn't be. Yes "all of society is wrong".
Why did I find it weird coming from you? Because you love your brother (which should be fine!), but.. the majority of society think it is wrong, so do we agree with the majority of society? No! Because society isn't always right.

but give it a few years. Being nude publicly and incest will be socially accepted. I've come to the realization that my viewpoints are years ahead. This is why I don't care if my opinions are unpopular, because I know that it is only temporary.

Living For Love
November 12th, 2015, 01:31 PM
Mod note: remember to keep the discussion civil. :)

neledisapersonne
November 12th, 2015, 09:27 PM
Okay, so first things first, your English makes this really difficult to understand what you are saying. I appreciate it isn't your first language, but it makes replying problematic.

Why ask the question if all you want to do is rant about how you should, unlike anyone else in society, be allowed to walk around naked. Seems you have your own viewpoint that is steadfast and in the very minority of what is normal.

People must have a 'perverted mind to sexualise someone's body'. I think you'll find it's actually basic biology? :confused:

It's nothing to do with being 'ashamed of your body' - it's about not exposing yourself in public when it isn't appropriate. Basically your argument is that all of society is wrong, and therefore you should do what you want regardless. Sure, you could go around without showering (because showers are a social construct), but that wouldn't make it socially acceptable.

I know personally I do not want to have to see yours or anyone else's naked body when I'm trying to do my shopping, walk around in a bikini only, but nudity isn't appropriate. And no, I'm not against others being naked per se, just in appropriate locations.

You also might want to consider the value you are placing on your body, if you're willing to just show it to strangers.

Kirina, I'm bored of replying to your broken record of repeated extreme minority views, and your arguments are both hypocritical and make no sense. Please don't call me 'pretty f%#king dumb' for having a different viewpoint, grow up.

~ Clara

Hello everyone, funnily enough I believe this is a first for me but I think I agree with Clara :) I dont think you not being developed yet gives you the right to wander around in an exhibitory manner if I may say.. I checked out the overall via the link you sent and it seems if you are not very fat it would leave nothing to the imagination without underwear.

K

CupcakeLuv101
November 12th, 2015, 09:48 PM
What were you wearing under your overalls? Obviously what you were wearing was to revealing, enough that some random stranger noticed and pointed out.

If you can't fit into bras that's fine (I'm almost 16 and am completely flat) but maybe at least wear a tank top underneath may help

Dyri_14
November 13th, 2015, 05:00 PM
What were you wearing under your overalls? Obviously what you were wearing was to revealing, enough that some random stranger noticed and pointed out.

If you can't fit into bras that's fine (I'm almost 16 and am completely flat) but maybe at least wear a tank top underneath may help

I don´t wear anything. :)

RainbowLove
November 16th, 2015, 01:03 PM
How did she know you didn't wear panties? As for not wearing a bra or shirt, well yes... that is really revealing. I wish I had the courage, short overalls like that with no top sounds really cute!

Dyri_14
November 16th, 2015, 01:32 PM
Hello!

It is easy to see that I have not anything underneath, if you are very close to me, as they were in the supermarket (link).

kiss


http://www.hm.com/us/product/37883?article=37883-B

RainbowLove
November 16th, 2015, 10:22 PM
Hello!

It is easy to see that I have not anything underneath, if you are very close to me, as they were in the supermarket (link).

kiss


http://www.hm.com/us/product/37883?article=37883-B

Ohmygosh, those have holes in places that'd be really revealing. I wish I was that daring! I think it'd be really cute and sexy...

Dyri_14
November 17th, 2015, 12:00 PM
I felt great and.. my mom that day was not me, but they know I've been well and does not care and have an open mind to do this (and not very developed body, in my case even nothing) and I think not break any law :). one day should have to try and then tell me if it is not good :)

ClaraWho
November 17th, 2015, 03:18 PM
Ohmygosh, those have holes in places that'd be really revealing. I wish I was that daring! I think it'd be really cute and sexy...

But the question wasn't whether you find them sexually stimulating or not, it was regarding how appropriate they are.

OP did you find this outfit sexually exciting, did you like that people could see those parts of your body?

~ Clara

RainbowLove
November 17th, 2015, 05:57 PM
But the question wasn't whether you find them sexually stimulating or not, it was regarding how appropriate they are.

OP did you find this outfit sexually exciting, did you like that people could see those parts of your body?

~ Clara

It's pretty obvious that something like that with nothing under it is not even remotely appropriate by societal standards, but I suspect the OP knew that. Isn't that the fun of it, being a bit naughty?

Claire Asteroid
November 17th, 2015, 08:43 PM
Good for you. If it was too hot to wear anything else and that's what you were comfortable in you did right. I don't think I would have been so daring though.

Jordan99
November 23rd, 2015, 05:23 PM
Without having actually seen what you wore, it is difficult to decide. If however it was obvious you were not appropriately covered while in public, you were wrong. Time and place for everything. I'm no prude. I wear thong bikinis and often go topless even on a public beach if it is allowed or there aren't many people around. If little kids show up, out of respect for them and their parents, I'll put a top on but will not cover my bare bottom. If they come to a beach, they should expect to see some skin. After all, I am there to get some sun for me and not to put on a show. When I am at a library, in school, grocery store or at the mall, it would be inappropriate to show as much as I show on the beach or at the pool and as such, no one would ever know if I were wearing panties or not however, it is my right to go braless if I want so long a I am covered by a shirt, blouse, dress, etc. Time and pace for everything. ;)

LITTLEANGEL17
November 24th, 2015, 04:15 AM
Without having actually seen what you wore, it is difficult to decide. If however it was obvious you were not appropriately covered while in public, you were wrong. Time and place for everything. I'm no prude. I wear thong bikinis and often go topless even on a public beach if it is allowed or there aren't many people around. If little kids show up, out of respect for them and their parents, I'll put a top on but will not cover my bare bottom. If they come to a beach, they should expect to see some skin. After all, I am there to get some sun for me and not to put on a show. When I am at a library, in school, grocery store or at the mall, it would be inappropriate to show as much as I show on the beach or at the pool and as such, no one would ever know if I were wearing panties or not however, it is my right to go braless if I want so long a I am covered by a shirt, blouse, dress, etc. Time and pace for everything. ;)

Jordan if you are on a beach that permits you to be topless why should you cover up, the parents should know its a topless beach and if they have any problems with their kids seeing breasts then don't take them to that beach or part of that beach.
The same logic would apply to naturist beaches. X

GlitterRose
November 24th, 2015, 01:00 PM
Firstly, the women was rude and she must have been staring quite hard to see you weren't wearing underwear.
Personal opinion, go for it. There is no reason why you need to wear underwear, so long as the outfit is not too revealing. I don't wear overalls myself, but often go without underwear. I will inject a word of caution, nipple stands are embarrassing in public:P

Jordan99
November 24th, 2015, 05:56 PM
Jordan if you are on a beach that permits you to be topless why should you cover up, the parents should know its a topless beach and if they have any problems with their kids seeing breasts then don't take them to that beach or part of that beach.
The same logic would apply to naturist beaches. X

I think I failed to explain my position correctly and thank you for pointing that out. I agree with you totally. What I meant was that sometimes I go topless on public beaches where going topless isn't necessarily allowed but if there is no one is around or very few people are around, I still do. Most times, no one minds but if there are little kids around or if it seems to be a problem for others, I'll put my top back on. I just hate tan lines. LoL :)

LITTLEANGEL17
November 24th, 2015, 10:32 PM
I think I failed to explain my position correctly and thank you for pointing that out. I agree with you totally. What I meant was that sometimes I go topless on public beaches where going topless isn't necessarily allowed but if there is no one is around or very few people are around, I still do. Most times, no one minds but if there are little kids around or if it seems to be a problem for others, I'll put my top back on. I just hates tan lines. LoL :)

Ok Jordan thanks for clearing that up, and I totally agree about the pesky tan lines , I hate them also. Anyway stay safe when sunbathing and don't be getting into any trouble. :). XX

LanaPole
November 25th, 2015, 04:30 AM
I think this kind of depends on the environment and culture of the place. Some places are more relaxed than others. I think it's just weird that a stranger would tell others what to wear. I don't think you should take her seriously. She must be staring. You didn't wear anything actually offensive or inappropriate.

angelina
November 25th, 2015, 11:03 AM
I am 14, and am still perfectly flat and hairless anywhere, so I do not think I need them, and once the copper bib. and that the use of only overalls / shortalls is perfectly fine, what do you think?
Kiss Agda (dyri)
we can not change the society overnight
Lesbians were once rejected...now the legal debate is on and slowly they will be accepted by the entire world.
coz...these are right of an individual...
you do not care for the people that criticized you..ignore them..
you are bold ...be as you want to be

ClaraWho
November 25th, 2015, 01:31 PM
we can not change the society overnight
Lesbians were once rejected...now the legal debate is on and slowly they will be accepted by the entire world.
coz...these are right of an individual...
you do not care for the people that criticized you..ignore them..
you are bold ...be as you want to be

Did you really just compare fashion choice with being born a lesbian? o.O

~ Clara

LanaPole
November 26th, 2015, 10:37 AM
we can not change the society overnight
Lesbians were once rejected...now the legal debate is on and slowly they will be accepted by the entire world.
coz...these are right of an individual...
you do not care for the people that criticized you..ignore them..
you are bold ...be as you want to be

I agree. just be yourself. dont worry about others

neledisapersonne
November 29th, 2015, 07:41 PM
we can not change the society overnight
Lesbians were once rejected...now the legal debate is on and slowly they will be accepted by the entire world.
coz...these are right of an individual...
you do not care for the people that criticized you..ignore them..
you are bold ...be as you want to be

I dont think even being a lesbian or being anything gives you the right to go out in public revealing what you shouldn't be revealing... If you want to dress like that there are beaches and such for that in my opinion.

Being a lesbian is a right but not having to see other people naked or such is a right as well I believe...

Albee
December 19th, 2015, 06:17 PM
Hi beautiful people,

I am writing to say that i think it was utterly appropriate considering the overalls.
What i am surprised about are all the sexist remarks against women here.

I would like to clarify that it is indeed sexist to say that it is inappropriate for women to be exposing her body. Even more than that it negatively affects both genders, male and female, and the society in general.


To begin, let's raise a question why is it inappropriate for women to be exposing her naked body? What is so awful about the women's body that it ought to not be seen by anyone in public?

I myself could honestly not find any decent answer. This notion of what is appropriate and what is not, is socially constructed. A good example for this is the male nipple. Before the 1920 in the western world it was generally considered to be just as indecent to expose a male nipple as it would have been to expose female’s breasts. All the swimsuits for men at that time were made to cover the whole chest and conceal the nipple.
Another example that the concept of decency is socially constructed is different cultures. Currently there are cultures all around the world which do not find that exposing a female's nipple in public is inappropriate. For example in many African tribes women do not cover up their breasts at all.

Now that we can agree that what is decent and what is not is constructed by society. The question we should look at, is what ought to be decent or indecent.
In other words we can classify what is decent or indecent based on whether we find it to be desirable or not.

So the question becomes: is it desirable that women would be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public?

I will define that what is desirable is to minimize human suffering.

Therefore it can be said that: it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public if that minimize human suffering.

Relating to Dyri’s story, women do have a desire to expose their naked body or parts of it in public. By prohibiting such action for women their freedom is limited, effectively they become oppressed. That in itself causes suffering for women, because an array of choice is reduced.
Furthermore prohibition as mentioned above leads to stigmatization and mystification of women’s body. Stigmatization also effectively causes suffering to the stigmatized.
The mystification of women’s body in turn leads to a sexualization of women’s body. Women become objects of imaginary desire within society. They are pushed to conform towards certain gender roles and are simply dehumanized. That causes a great amount of suffering for both women and men.

All of these outcomes caused by previously mentioned prohibition lead to establishing gender roles, pushing women towards them and confining women within them. It leads to denying women their self-expression. That results in causing immense human suffering.

Therefore a conclusion can be drawn that it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public because it minimizes human suffering, and therefor is decent/not indecent.

Now I hope it is clear to everyone who thinks that exposing naked women’s body or parts of it in public is inappropriate, that they are sexists and are contributing to substantial human suffering :P

LITTLEANGEL17
December 20th, 2015, 06:10 AM
Hi beautiful people,

I am writing to say that i think it was utterly appropriate considering the overalls.
What i am surprised about are all the sexist remarks against women here.

I would like to clarify that it is indeed sexist to say that it is inappropriate for women to be exposing her body. Even more than that it negatively affects both genders, male and female, and the society in general.


To begin, let's raise a question why is it inappropriate for women to be exposing her naked body? What is so awful about the women's body that it ought to not be seen by anyone in public?

I myself could honestly not find any decent answer. This notion of what is appropriate and what is not, is socially constructed. A good example for this is the male nipple. Before the 1920 in the western world it was generally considered to be just as indecent to expose a male nipple as it would have been to expose female’s breasts. All the swimsuits for men at that time were made to cover the whole chest and conceal the nipple.
Another example that the concept of decency is socially constructed is different cultures. Currently there are cultures all around the world which do not find that exposing a female's nipple in public is inappropriate. For example in many African tribes women do not cover up their breasts at all.

Now that we can agree that what is decent and what is not is constructed by society. The question we should look at, is what ought to be decent or indecent.
In other words we can classify what is decent or indecent based on whether we find it to be desirable or not.

So the question becomes: is it desirable that women would be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public?

I will define that what is desirable is to minimize human suffering.

Therefore it can be said that: it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public if that minimize human suffering.

Relating to Dyri’s story, women do have a desire to expose their naked body or parts of it in public. By prohibiting such action for women their freedom is limited, effectively they become oppressed. That in itself causes suffering for women, because an array of choice is reduced.
Furthermore prohibition as mentioned above leads to stigmatization and mystification of women’s body. Stigmatization also effectively causes suffering to the stigmatized.
The mystification of women’s body in turn leads to a sexualization of women’s body. Women become objects of imaginary desire within society. They are pushed to conform towards certain gender roles and are simply dehumanized. That causes a great amount of suffering for both women and men.

All of these outcomes caused by previously mentioned prohibition lead to establishing gender roles, pushing women towards them and confining women within them. It leads to denying women their self-expression. That results in causing immense human suffering.

Therefore a conclusion can be drawn that it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public because it minimizes human suffering, and therefor is decent/not indecent.

Now I hope it is clear to everyone who thinks that exposing naked women’s body or parts of it in public is inappropriate, that they are sexists and are contributing to substantial human suffering :P
Welcome to V.T. a very interesting post an I would agree with it. I think the female body is beautiful no matter of age or race or how they look. I have no problem being naked around the house as I do be a lot, and also in school and the pool showers. I have also been to a naturist swim with mum it was great.
XX

Dyri_14
December 20th, 2015, 07:53 AM
Hi beautiful people,

I am writing to say that i think it was utterly appropriate considering the overalls.
What i am surprised about are all the sexist remarks against women here.

I would like to clarify that it is indeed sexist to say that it is inappropriate for women to be exposing her body. Even more than that it negatively affects both genders, male and female, and the society in general.


To begin, let's raise a question why is it inappropriate for women to be exposing her naked body? What is so awful about the women's body that it ought to not be seen by anyone in public?

I myself could honestly not find any decent answer. This notion of what is appropriate and what is not, is socially constructed. A good example for this is the male nipple. Before the 1920 in the western world it was generally considered to be just as indecent to expose a male nipple as it would have been to expose female’s breasts. All the swimsuits for men at that time were made to cover the whole chest and conceal the nipple.
Another example that the concept of decency is socially constructed is different cultures. Currently there are cultures all around the world which do not find that exposing a female's nipple in public is inappropriate. For example in many African tribes women do not cover up their breasts at all.

Now that we can agree that what is decent and what is not is constructed by society. The question we should look at, is what ought to be decent or indecent.
In other words we can classify what is decent or indecent based on whether we find it to be desirable or not.

So the question becomes: is it desirable that women would be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public?

I will define that what is desirable is to minimize human suffering.

Therefore it can be said that: it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public if that minimize human suffering.

Relating to Dyri’s story, women do have a desire to expose their naked body or parts of it in public. By prohibiting such action for women their freedom is limited, effectively they become oppressed. That in itself causes suffering for women, because an array of choice is reduced.
Furthermore prohibition as mentioned above leads to stigmatization and mystification of women’s body. Stigmatization also effectively causes suffering to the stigmatized.
The mystification of women’s body in turn leads to a sexualization of women’s body. Women become objects of imaginary desire within society. They are pushed to conform towards certain gender roles and are simply dehumanized. That causes a great amount of suffering for both women and men.

All of these outcomes caused by previously mentioned prohibition lead to establishing gender roles, pushing women towards them and confining women within them. It leads to denying women their self-expression. That results in causing immense human suffering.

Therefore a conclusion can be drawn that it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public because it minimizes human suffering, and therefor is decent/not indecent.

Now I hope it is clear to everyone who thinks that exposing naked women’s body or parts of it in public is inappropriate, that they are sexists and are contributing to substantial human suffering :P


Hello

Welcome to VT! Thanks for the post, with a point of view that I agree!

kiss

ClaraWho
December 20th, 2015, 09:37 AM
I dont think even being a lesbian or being anything gives you the right to go out in public revealing what you shouldn't be revealing... If you want to dress like that there are beaches and such for that in my opinion.

Being a lesbian is a right but not having to see other people naked or such is a right as well I believe...

Agreed ^

Hi beautiful people,

I am writing to say that i think it was utterly appropriate considering the overalls.
What i am surprised about are all the sexist remarks against women here.

I would like to clarify that it is indeed sexist to say that it is inappropriate for women to be exposing her body. Even more than that it negatively affects both genders, male and female, and the society in general.


To begin, let's raise a question why is it inappropriate for women to be exposing her naked body? What is so awful about the women's body that it ought to not be seen by anyone in public?

I myself could honestly not find any decent answer. This notion of what is appropriate and what is not, is socially constructed. A good example for this is the male nipple. Before the 1920 in the western world it was generally considered to be just as indecent to expose a male nipple as it would have been to expose female’s breasts. All the swimsuits for men at that time were made to cover the whole chest and conceal the nipple.
Another example that the concept of decency is socially constructed is different cultures. Currently there are cultures all around the world which do not find that exposing a female's nipple in public is inappropriate. For example in many African tribes women do not cover up their breasts at all.

Now that we can agree that what is decent and what is not is constructed by society. The question we should look at, is what ought to be decent or indecent.
In other words we can classify what is decent or indecent based on whether we find it to be desirable or not.

So the question becomes: is it desirable that women would be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public?

I will define that what is desirable is to minimize human suffering.

Therefore it can be said that: it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public if that minimize human suffering.

Relating to Dyri’s story, women do have a desire to expose their naked body or parts of it in public. By prohibiting such action for women their freedom is limited, effectively they become oppressed. That in itself causes suffering for women, because an array of choice is reduced.
Furthermore prohibition as mentioned above leads to stigmatization and mystification of women’s body. Stigmatization also effectively causes suffering to the stigmatized.
The mystification of women’s body in turn leads to a sexualization of women’s body. Women become objects of imaginary desire within society. They are pushed to conform towards certain gender roles and are simply dehumanized. That causes a great amount of suffering for both women and men.

All of these outcomes caused by previously mentioned prohibition lead to establishing gender roles, pushing women towards them and confining women within them. It leads to denying women their self-expression. That results in causing immense human suffering.

Therefore a conclusion can be drawn that it is desirable for women to be able to expose their naked body or parts of it in public because it minimizes human suffering, and therefor is decent/not indecent.

Now I hope it is clear to everyone who thinks that exposing naked women’s body or parts of it in public is inappropriate, that they are sexists and are contributing to substantial human suffering :P

To begin, let's actually make it clear this is the 'girls section', ergo replies are going to be about... girls. Perhaps I'm missing these 'sexist' posts you speak of, but simply stating people shouldn't walk around in public with their genitals out, isn't remotely sexist. I don't want to see a random penis or vagina when out shopping for dinner. I'd lose my appetite. And you say all girls disagreeing are sexist against... girls? :what:

Your point regarding covering of nipples (which isn't actually the real point of this thread I hasten to add) is rather mute. Of course it is socially constructed. As are manners, sexism, laws, etc. Saying 'socially constructed' isn't an argument for or against.

In terms of sexism, in many African tribes women assume the role of childbearer and housewife, again besides the point, but you raised it.

I find your arguments of all women being oppressed because they can't run around naked absurd, not least because you have no evidence to substantiate your wild claim. Women and men are therefore equally oppressed, following your logic. The mystification of the males penis and testicles, those poor sexualised men being stigmatised because women don't know what a penis is. Oh if only they'd strip more often in public and wave it about a bit. Oh, the torture those poor dehumanised men must endure, pigeonholed in gender roles, forced to hide their mystical penis. If only this immense human suffering could end, if only they could use their penises for self-expression. Maybe like a paintbrush. Swoosh.


The simple fact is the vast majority of women do not want to be naked in public. They don't want to be naked, and they don't want to see you naked. Most girls don't even leave the house without pallets of make-up meticulously scraped on. I can say this assuredly, as otherwise women would be campaigning the same way they did before to gain such rights.

To claim naked females are a rare commodity is again, absurd. Porn is but three letters and a click away, strip clubs are a dime a dozen, and anyone can walk into a bar and find SOMEOME willing to have sex with them. One just has to glance at other posts here to see most people are exposed sexually to experiences with the opposite gender from 13 yrs old onwards.

Practical problems such as weather, hygiene, periods, sunburn, accidental showing of sexual arousal (which may be undesirable for the individual), etc are unrelated to any social construct.

And social constructs as aforementioned aren't inherently wrong/bad, they're the reason we don't go to the toilet/masturbate/have sex in public.

Personally I feel sad for anyone who loses appreciation for how special their body is, how it is unique to just them. I cherish that, aside from a few necessary doctor visits, my soulmate is the only one I share my body with. I merit this as being my own personal choice, a decision to treat my body as special as I want to believe it to be, and in turn how my lover makes me know it is.

Some girls get so hellbent on demanding 'rights' from 'sexist men' that they discard their breasts or whole body as being personal and sacred. I don't denie anyone the right to expose their body how they wish, but I do not want to be forced to see it when going about my day to day life. There are places and colonies one can go for such kicks. And society clearly agrees, you must concede your position is a known minority?

A minor point is the clear love of fashion that most girls have, myself included. So many clothes, accessories, shoes... So little time...

~ Clara

Albee
December 20th, 2015, 11:07 AM
Agreed ^



To begin, let's actually make it clear this is the 'girls section', ergo replies are going to be about... girls. Perhaps I'm missing these 'sexist' posts you speak of, but simply stating people shouldn't walk around in public with their genitals out, isn't remotely sexist. I don't want to see a random penis or vagina when out shopping for dinner. I'd lose my appetite. And you say all girls disagreeing are sexist against... girls? :what:

Your point regarding covering of nipples (which isn't actually the real point of this thread I hasten to add) is rather mute. Of course it is socially constructed. As are manners, sexism, laws, etc. Saying 'socially constructed' isn't an argument for or against.

In terms of sexism, in many African tribes women assume the role of childbearer and housewife, again besides the point, but you raised it.

I find your arguments of all women being oppressed because they can't run around naked absurd, not least because you have no evidence to substantiate your wild claim. Women and men are therefore equally oppressed, following your logic. The mystification of the males penis and testicles, those poor sexualised men being stigmatised because women don't know what a penis is. Oh if only they'd strip more often in public and wave it about a bit. Oh, the torture those poor dehumanised men must endure, pigeonholed in gender roles, forced to hide their mystical penis. If only this immense human suffering could end, if only they could use their penises for self-expression. Maybe like a paintbrush. Swoosh.


The simple fact is the vast majority of women do not want to be naked in public. They don't want to be naked, and they don't want to see you naked. Most girls don't even leave the house without pallets of make-up meticulously scraped on. I can say this assuredly, as otherwise women would be campaigning the same way they did before to gain such rights.

To claim naked females are a rare commodity is again, absurd. Porn is but three letters and a click away, strip clubs are a dime a dozen, and anyone can walk into a bar and find SOMEOME willing to have sex with them. One just has to glance at other posts here to see most people are exposed sexually to experiences with the opposite gender from 13 yrs old onwards.

Practical problems such as weather, hygiene, periods, sunburn, accidental showing of sexual arousal (which may be undesirable for the individual), etc are unrelated to any social construct.

And social constructs as aforementioned aren't inherently wrong/bad, they're the reason we don't go to the toilet/masturbate/have sex in public.

Personally I feel sad for anyone who loses appreciation for how special their body is, how it is unique to just them. I cherish that, aside from a few necessary doctor visits, my soulmate is the only one I share my body with. I merit this as being my own personal choice, a decision to treat my body as special as I want to believe it to be, and in turn how my lover makes me know it is.

Some girls get so hellbent on demanding 'rights' from 'sexist men' that they discard their breasts or whole body as being personal and sacred. I don't denie anyone the right to expose their body how they wish, but I do not want to be forced to see it when going about my day to day life. There are places and colonies one can go for such kicks. And society clearly agrees, you must concede your position is a known minority?

A minor point is the clear love of fashion that most girls have, myself included. So many clothes, accessories, shoes... So little time...

~ Clara

Hi Clara,

I apologize if you interpreted my remark literally that "everyone who thinks that exposing naked women’s body or parts of it in public is inappropriate, are sexists and are contributing to substantial human suffering" it was a light hearted joke, i thought the " :P " at the end made it clear.

Considering what you wrote, i do not think that we necessarily disagree on the conclusion. I do not claim that women, as you put it, should be walking naked, all i am saying is that they should have the possibility to do so, if THEY want it and that denying it causes human suffering.

In your post you did not necessarily address my position, instead you introduced an array of new topics. Further i would say that you misunderstood and misrepresented a significant part of what I have written. Because of that it would be substantially difficult to have a constructive and efficient discussion through the medium of a forum. Therefore i will not address the other points you have made in your post.

ClaraWho
December 20th, 2015, 02:28 PM
Hi Clara,

I apologize if you interpreted my remark literally that "everyone who thinks that exposing naked women’s body or parts of it in public is inappropriate, are sexists and are contributing to substantial human suffering" it was a light hearted joke, i thought the " :P " at the end made it clear.

Considering what you wrote, i do not think that we necessarily disagree on the conclusion. I do not claim that women, as you put it, should be walking naked, all i am saying is that they should have the possibility to do so, if THEY want it and that denying it causes human suffering.

In your post you did not necessarily address my position, instead you introduced an array of new topics. Further i would say that you misunderstood and misrepresented a significant part of what I have written. Because of that it would be substantially difficult to have a constructive and efficient discussion through the medium of a forum. Therefore i will not address the other points you have made in your post.

Seeing as you made the same remark throughout, should we interpret your entire post as a joke?

1. Read what I commented before. I already replied to your second paragraph in depth.
2. Seeing as I was directly quoting you, I find it difficult to believe (and you are not forthcoming with a single example), that any misinterpretation occurred. As they were QOUTES of your post, the topics are not new.
3. Basically you don't have an actual response to the issues I pointed out with your logic right? Let's just be honest here, but I'll leave that the reader to decide.

~ Clara

Albee
December 20th, 2015, 05:08 PM
Seeing as you made the same remark throughout, should we interpret your entire post as a joke?

No, the humor of the last sentence derives from juxtaposition of disparate concepts. The joke was juxtaposing two incongruous concepts: the majority of population which we perceive to be benevolent and the awfulness of unfoundedly discriminating based on sex.

The humor is of course to begin with is about telling the truth. Yet the last sentence should not be taken at face value. Such things as intention are also greatly important to constitute the action. There is a difference between someone accidentally pushing someone down from a twelve story building and someone doing that intentionally.

1. Read what I commented before. I already replied to your second paragraph in depth.

My second paragraph, really. What in my text would constitute the second paragraph, i did not use conventional syntax. As you must have noticed there are line breaks almost for every sentence. Or do you perceive some sort of division of thought within in my text, based on which you label the paragraphs? Well, if I look myself at the division of thought, I would say my second paragraph begins with explanation that decency is a culturally constructed concept. Yet we had no disagreement on this point as you have pointed out in your response. Therefore you must think that my second paragraph is some other part of text. So now we have reached a position where you are making arguments simply which are not true …

2. Seeing as I was directly quoting you, I find it difficult to believe (and you are not forthcoming with a single example), that any misinterpretation occurred. As they were QOUTES of your post, the topics are not new.

You are not directly quoting me, you quoted my whole text and then started writing your opinion about this and that, relating little to my previously outlined position.

I never wrote anything of the like: "To claim naked females are a rare commodity is again, absurd."

Your text is about less than a fifth of critique of my position and the rest is made of unintelligible sentences as above.

3. Basically you don't have an actual response to the issues I pointed out with your logic right? Let's just be honest here, but I'll leave that the reader to decide.

I am not sure what issue you pointed out. But i will assume it is this one:
"I find your arguments of all women being oppressed because they can't run around naked absurd"

I clearly expressed why women are oppressed if they are prohibited to expose their naked body in public, but I will reitariate my points for you.

Relating to Dyri’s story, women do have a desire to expose their naked body or parts of it in public. By prohibiting such action for women their freedom is limited, effectively they become oppressed. That in itself causes suffering for women, because an array of choice is reduced.
(Here you wrote that supposedly women do not possess such desire, that is simply not true, Dyri’s story collaborates my position as well as numerous other women, check out the campaign “Free the nipple”)

Furthermore prohibition as mentioned above leads to stigmatization and mystification of women’s body. Stigmatization also effectively causes suffering to the stigmatized.
(Here you wrote that supposedly not allowing women to expose their naked body in public does not stigmatize it. There are numerous evidence how it does stigmatize women’s body, here is a factual evidence https://www.facebook.com/conner.kendall/posts/993428820669198:0 )

The mystification of women’s body in turn leads to a sexualization of women’s body. Women become objects of imaginary desire within society. They are pushed to conform towards certain gender roles and are simply dehumanized. That causes a great amount of suffering for both women and men.
( Yes women are indeed dehumanized when they become an object of imaginary desire within society. Women's self-expression is denied to them because members of society see the imaginary desire rather than the person in front of them. And yes, men are also in same way hurt as women are if their penis becomes over-sexualized. An over-sexualization of men’s penis however is significantly rarer than that of women.)


I have replied to your post, because i found it to be derogative of me. Yet I will not engage in further conversation, not because your slur me, but because, as I have mentioned in my previous post, you have misunderstood and misinterpreted a significant part of my text, as well as introduced an array of new unrelated points. That makes it extremely difficult to have a meaningful or efficient discussion through the medium of forum.
It is as you said, let it be left to the reader to decide.

Furthermore I will note that I did not appreciate the tone of your language.

Vanilla Cupcake
December 20th, 2015, 09:43 PM
Your 14 and you go to college?
As for the no clothes under the shortalls, that seems kinda strange that you would go in public like that. I have shortalls and if I didn't wear at least my bikini top under them, people can see your chest from the side and because I'm a girl, boobs or no boobs, I would feel embarrassed knowing people could see me and also embarrassed knowing it was inappropriate for public. Just my opinion. Also, if it was more common and everyone did it then that's a hole other story.

ClaraWho
December 21st, 2015, 03:54 AM
No, the humor of the last sentence derives from juxtaposition of disparate concepts. The joke was juxtaposing two incongruous concepts: the majority of population which we perceive to be benevolent and the awfulness of unfoundedly discriminating based on sex.

The humor is of course to begin with is about telling the truth. Yet the last sentence should not be taken at face value. Such things as intention are also greatly important to constitute the action. There is a difference between someone accidentally pushing someone down from a twelve story building and someone doing that intentionally.



My second paragraph, really. What in my text would constitute the second paragraph, i did not use conventional syntax. As you must have noticed there are line breaks almost for every sentence. Or do you perceive some sort of division of thought within in my text, based on which you label the paragraphs? Well, if I look myself at the division of thought, I would say my second paragraph begins with explanation that decency is a culturally constructed concept. Yet we had no disagreement on this point as you have pointed out in your response. Therefore you must think that my second paragraph is some other part of text. So now we have reached a position where you are making arguments simply which are not true …



You are not directly quoting me, you quoted my whole text and then started writing your opinion about this and that, relating little to my previously outlined position.

I never wrote anything of the like: "To claim naked females are a rare commodity is again, absurd."

Your text is about less than a fifth of critique of my position and the rest is made of unintelligible sentences as above.



I am not sure what issue you pointed out. But i will assume it is this one:
"I find your arguments of all women being oppressed because they can't run around naked absurd"

I clearly expressed why women are oppressed if they are prohibited to expose their naked body in public, but I will reitariate my points for you.

Relating to Dyri’s story, women do have a desire to expose their naked body or parts of it in public. By prohibiting such action for women their freedom is limited, effectively they become oppressed. That in itself causes suffering for women, because an array of choice is reduced.
(Here you wrote that supposedly women do not possess such desire, that is simply not true, Dyri’s story collaborates my position as well as numerous other women, check out the campaign “Free the nipple”)

Furthermore prohibition as mentioned above leads to stigmatization and mystification of women’s body. Stigmatization also effectively causes suffering to the stigmatized.
(Here you wrote that supposedly not allowing women to expose their naked body in public does not stigmatize it. There are numerous evidence how it does stigmatize women’s body, here is a factual evidence https://www.facebook.com/conner.kendall/posts/993428820669198:0 )

The mystification of women’s body in turn leads to a sexualization of women’s body. Women become objects of imaginary desire within society. They are pushed to conform towards certain gender roles and are simply dehumanized. That causes a great amount of suffering for both women and men.
( Yes women are indeed dehumanized when they become an object of imaginary desire within society. Women's self-expression is denied to them because members of society see the imaginary desire rather than the person in front of them. And yes, men are also in same way hurt as women are if their penis becomes over-sexualized. An over-sexualization of men’s penis however is significantly rarer than that of women.)


I have replied to your post, because i found it to be derogative of me. Yet I will not engage in further conversation, not because your slur me, but because, as I have mentioned in my previous post, you have misunderstood and misinterpreted a significant part of my text, as well as introduced an array of new unrelated points. That makes it extremely difficult to have a meaningful or efficient discussion through the medium of forum.
It is as you said, let it be left to the reader to decide.

Furthermore I will note that I did not appreciate the tone of your language.

You can note it all you like.

Clearly this is personal for you, as I see no other reason why you cannot put 2+2 together and get the answer 4. My points are entirely comprehensive addressing your topics, but you would far rather bulldoze your own agenda than have an adult discussion. Yes, repeating yourself and calling others arguments irrelevant and deeming them not worth response, is immature. People who act in this aggressive, 'just agree with me' mindset are not well liked.

I'll use your example to demonstrate this;

'To claim naked females are a rare commodity is again, absurd.'

- This is a response to your claim that women are hidden away, 'oppressed' and that this oppression makes their bodies 'mystical'.
- 'Rare commodity' means something which cannot be readily seen or acquired
- 'Absurd' is clearly in relation to your argument. I'm saying your ideas are whacky, they don't make sense in reality, there is no basis in evidence to support them.

The reasoning for the latter statement is clear. Women are not 'mystical' to men, so your argument falls apart at the first hurdle. They aren't 'mystical' because most 13 years olds know what a naked woman looks like, including both sex ed and every growing access to porn. Thus your argument is absurd. :yes:

You deemed this sentence unintelligible. Do not misinterpret your own lack of understanding, for others being incomprehensible or wrong. Ask for clarity. Do not throw around insults or dismiss responses based on your inability to understand.:what:

Your first paragraph here is a clear demonstration of unintelligible. Yes, I said paragraph as everyone else here clearly has an understanding of what that refers to on here. :lol:

Nipples are not the primary topic of discussion here, that should also be noted. You have said you are not going to reply, but if you do we are both running the risk here of mods shutting this thread down due to this discussion. To avoid this posts must remain on topic.

~ Clara

Living For Love
December 21st, 2015, 06:03 AM
Mod note: please stop arguing with each other about things that are not related to the initial question, otherwise warnings will be handed out.