PDA

View Full Version : ObamaCare


Walter Powers
August 23rd, 2013, 11:17 AM
What's your opinion on the so called "Affordable Care Act?" Do you think it's mostly a good piece of legislation, or that we're better off without it?

I think this law is a great example of government gone wild - it's thousands of pages long, was sold by the President on lies, and will badly impact healthcare and our overall economy enormously.

britishboy
August 23rd, 2013, 11:33 AM
the whole things a joke, especially the fact no one has read it!

tovaris
August 23rd, 2013, 04:59 PM
Sounds nice, the atempt to bring helthcare to everione even if they cant aford it.


What's your opinion on the so called "Affordable Care Act?" Do you think it's mostly a good piece of legislation, or that we're better off without it?

I think this law is a great example of government gone wild - it's thousands of pages long, was sold by the President on lies, and will badly impact healthcare and our overall economy enormously.

But it would be nice if you could show us an example of the document you talk about, a person cant realy astablishan opinion about an law without reading it first.

Stronk Serb
August 24th, 2013, 07:06 AM
That's a good idea. All people deserve healthcare. Can you give me an example of the law, so that I can establish an opinion about it?

Gigablue
August 24th, 2013, 08:15 AM
Obamacare is a bad idea. The idea of affordable healthcare for everyone is good, but Obamacare is not the way to do it.

The US needs to adopt a government run, public healthcare system, similar to the one we have here in Canada. I think Obama has the right idea, but the actual implementation needs much work.

DerBear
August 24th, 2013, 08:28 AM
I'm more than happy with the theory but I do believe the manner in which it intends to introduced/implemented may need some work.

I do believe affordable health care for those who can't afford to pay the big companies is a good idea.

Twilly F. Sniper
August 24th, 2013, 11:39 AM
Obamacare is a bad idea. The idea of affordable healthcare for everyone is good, but Obamacare is not the way to do it.

The US needs to adopt a government run, public healthcare system, similar to the one we have here in Canada. I think Obama has the right idea, but the actual implementation needs much work.

Yes. But the only issue I see is taxes there. That would likely be entirely run off if taxes. Our government is really full of people that only run off Kentucky windage.

Gigablue
August 24th, 2013, 05:34 PM
Yes. But the only issue I see is taxes there. That would likely be entirely run off if taxes. Our government is really full of people that only run off Kentucky windage.

Our system in Canada runs off taxes, yet our taxes aren't bad. Also, the US pays insane amounts for healthcare, and will continue to do so under Obamacare. Here in Canada, we pay less and have better care. Who cares if we pay through taxes or some other way.

Sugaree
August 24th, 2013, 07:41 PM
In theory, it's a nice idea this entire universal healthcare thing. Overall, I support it. However, there's going to be a problem in implementing it. For one, to change an entire country's healthcare system in less than two years, where no one even bothers to read/doesn't get the opportunity to read what is in the bill is just absolutely ridiculous. Second, to implement it in less than 4 years is just pushing it through and asking for trouble. Three, to increase the taxes paid by the American people now, especially in times of economic trouble, is just not a smart thing to do.

Again, the idea is not a bad one. I believe that healthcare is one of those very important things to have, even though it's not necessarily a human right. It's just the implementation of such a system that makes me worried. I think, for proper implementation, we need to start from scratch. Learn what the basic needs are in the country, make different plans (such as Medicare Part A, Part B, C, etc.) so as to perfectly suit every person, and then go about implementing it over the course of at least a decade. The Affordable Care Act was shoved through Congress and pushed onto the American people far too soon for it to be effective. There was no time to find bugs in the system and squash them, the opposition was completely ignored, and it set a perfect example of how you should NOT go about to make legislative changes.

EddietheZombie
August 24th, 2013, 08:59 PM
I dont like his health care. They give you a survey of sorts, and question you about personal life ie activities such as riding 4-wheelers, sports, jobs with alot of manual work ect. And if you do those things, it equals more tax, %20 percent if im right. And jobs such as construction, truckers, loggers, ect will be taxed heavily for their "dangerous" work. I think Canadas health care would be perfect, but i feel that a lot of people are scared of change and they wont allow it. Its a good idea, just poorly done.

Walter Powers
August 24th, 2013, 11:19 PM
Sounds nice, the atempt to bring helthcare to everione even if they cant aford it.




But it would be nice if you could show us an example of the document you talk about, a person cant realy astablishan opinion about an law without reading it first.

That's a good idea. All people deserve healthcare. Can you give me an example of the law, so that I can establish an opinion about it?

President Obama once again has the commies on his side!

What do you mean by "an example"? Here's the law if you'd like to read it (just warning you, it might crash your computer it's so gigantic):

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

Sugaree
August 25th, 2013, 12:47 AM
President Obama once again has the commies on his side!

Hurr whoever doesn't agree with me is a commie durr

Stronk Serb
August 25th, 2013, 02:55 AM
President Obama once again has the commies on his side!

What do you mean by "an example"? Here's the law if you'd like to read it (just warning you, it might crash your computer it's so gigantic):

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

If your goal is to insult me by calling me a commie, it's not working. The webpage you posted did not crash my computer, it loaded very fast, despite a horrible internet connection. I had a hard time understanding what was written, so I found a summed up version. It has flaws, it should be like the healthcare system in Serbia, the UK, Canada, government funded and available to all. 5% of my parents' salaries go to the Ministry of Health and give us government health insurance which covers all of our needs. If you want special treatment like your own room, a TV with 1000 channels and luxurious food, you can go to private hospital. If you want a university professor to examine you instead of a regular doctor, you can pay private insurance and you will get that.

tovaris
August 25th, 2013, 03:50 AM
President Obama once again has the commies on his side!

What do you mean by "an example"? Here's the law if you'd like to read it (just warning you, it might crash your computer it's so gigantic):

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

Barak Hosein Obama is an idiot, why would i be on his side?

Now that is some document. Im my experience long And conplacatly writen laws dont jeald mich resolt. I will read more and get back to you.

From what i managed toread (man isit boring) i can say that it isnt as bad as you portraied it. It would definetly bring some positive reform to the the "legendary" american helth sistem, but the oveconplicated way the law makes it happen will bring problems....

TapDancer
August 25th, 2013, 05:02 AM
President Obama once again has the commies on his side!

What do you mean by "an example"? Here's the law if you'd like to read it (just warning you, it might crash your computer it's so gigantic):

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text

Dude, it is massive, I am not going to read it. I am going to assume that it is a law that will make healthcare more affordable and accessible by charging extra taxes. No law is perfect, but from a country where Medicare exists, without it, we'd have homeless people on the streets and sickness everywhere. Good health allows people to get jobs, get educated and improves the economy. I mean, our system is not completely free. I have health insurance, which I don't have to use, if I don't and I go to hospital, I don't choose my doctor or the date of my surgery. It might not be the most comfortable, but I won't die. A school can be a breeding ground of diseases. Our system provides free vaccinations for heaps of things, like chicken pox, hepatitis, and cervical cancer - a vaccination now available to both men and women, as men may not have a cervix, but they carry the genes to the cancer.

I mean, it is going to be hard to implement, and nothing is perfect, there are going to be issues, but Obama wants into introduce a system because, as shown by other countries, it works. America went into a recession, as did many other countries. But the ones that didn't had a strong economy, and part of that was a functioning health system. In the long run, it will benefit all Americans.

Walter Powers
August 29th, 2013, 01:33 PM
Hurr whoever doesn't agree with me is a commie durr
Well in this case they happen to be. Both Maticek and Comrade Mike openly identify as communist, check out there signatures; one quotes Marx and one says they're a communist. Just ask them.

If your goal is to insult me by calling me a commie, it's not working. The webpage you posted did not crash my computer, it loaded very fast, despite a horrible internet connection. I had a hard time understanding what was written, so I found a summed up version. It has flaws, it should be like the healthcare system in Serbia, the UK, Canada, government funded and available to all. 5% of my parents' salaries go to the Ministry of Health and give us government health insurance which covers all of our needs. If you want special treatment like your own room, a TV with 1000 channels and luxurious food, you can go to private hospital. If you want a university professor to examine you instead of a regular doctor, you can pay private insurance and you will get that.

If your goal is to insult me by calling me a commie, it's not working

Your political ideology revolves stripping everybody except a political elite of their personal freedoms, making everyone but that elite equally miserable. It is a cruel, wicked way for a select few to dictate the masses, and violates pretty much every basic human right. Communism deserves every insult to it that is given.

It has flaws

That's an understatement. The entire law is a flaw. The biggest problem I see with it is it increases the number of regular patients by millions, but it doesn't provide an avenue to increase the number of doctors and facilities. It's impossible for it not to raise the cost and/or lower the quality of our top-notch healthcare.

Dude, it is massive, I am not going to read it. I am going to assume that it is a law that will make healthcare more affordable and accessible by charging extra taxes. No law is perfect, but from a country where Medicare exists, without it, we'd have homeless people on the streets and sickness everywhere. Good health allows people to get jobs, get educated and improves the economy. I mean, our system is not completely free. I have health insurance, which I don't have to use, if I don't and I go to hospital, I don't choose my doctor or the date of my surgery. It might not be the most comfortable, but I won't die. A school can be a breeding ground of diseases. Our system provides free vaccinations for heaps of things, like chicken pox, hepatitis, and cervical cancer - a vaccination now available to both men and women, as men may not have a cervix, but they carry the genes to the cancer.

I mean, it is going to be hard to implement, and nothing is perfect, there are going to be issues, but Obama wants into introduce a system because, as shown by other countries, it works. America went into a recession, as did many other countries. But the ones that didn't had a strong economy, and part of that was a functioning health system. In the long run, it will benefit all Americans.

Let's start here:

Dude, it is massive, I am not going to read it.

All the more reason not to support it. Who knows what could be hidden in there? As Nancy Pelosi said, "we have to pass it to know what's in it."

I am going to assume that it is a law that will make healthcare more affordable and accessible by charging extra taxes

Why? You really put that much faith in our politicians?

No law is perfect, but from a country where Medicare exists, without it, we'd have homeless people on the streets and sickness everywhere

We would? Why do you think people wouldn't save more and buy private insurance, knowing a government entitlement wouldn't cover them?

I mean, it is going to be hard to implement, and nothing is perfect, there are going to be issues, but Obama wants into introduce a system because, as shown by other countries, it works. America went into a recession, as did many other countries. But the ones that didn't had a strong economy, and part of that was a functioning health system. In the long run, it will benefit all Americans

Are you aware President Obama recently ILLEGALLY altered the law pushing back the employer insurance mandate until 2016, but the individual mandate will still take affect in 2015? In other words, you'll have millions of people in violation of the law, because they'll be required to have insurances but there business won't be required to give it to them.

But the ones that didn't had a strong economy, and part of that was a functioning health system

Like who? Could you name some countries?

I'll say what I said above:

The biggest problem I see with it is it increases the number of regular patients by millions, but it doesn't provide an avenue to increase the number of doctors and facilities. It's impossible for it not to raise the cost and/or lower the quality of our top-notch healthcare.

Harry Smith
August 29th, 2013, 01:38 PM
You do know that all these problems could be solved if you simply allowed health care to be ran by the government.

It's stupid having your health and well-being hinging on a insurance company- the insurance company doesn't want to be paying out 50,000 pounds for a new heart- they want to simply make as much money as possible.

You can call me a socialist, a hippie, a communist or whatever but there is a reason that America ranks 38th in the world in regards to health care.

Also I think Senator Mccarthy would be very proud of your communist speech

Stronk Serb
August 29th, 2013, 02:32 PM
Your political ideology revolves stripping everybody except a political elite of their personal freedoms, making everyone but that elite equally miserable. It is a cruel, wicked way for a select few to dictate the masses, and violates pretty much every basic human right. Communism deserves every insult to it that is given.

I see you are washed with Cold War propaganda. What happened in the USSR, China and North Korea is not communism. That is fascism. Communism advocates equality of all, not a select few. If you want to see what communism is, go to this (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=172091) page. Back on topic, hospitals are made to cover entire cities. Not even 10% of the city is at the hospitals, even during extreme cases each day. It should be centralized, and government ran. You will pay it, but have access to all health services. If you want a better service, buy a private insurance.

Capto
August 29th, 2013, 03:43 PM
Still wondering why people think this law is massive.

*Shakes head*

Your political ideology revolves stripping everybody except a political elite of their personal freedoms, making everyone but that elite equally miserable. It is a cruel, wicked way for a select few to dictate the masses, and violates pretty much every basic human right. Communism deserves every insult to it that is given.


lol

Walter Powers
September 2nd, 2013, 02:52 PM
Another thing I'd like to point out: This law will put in place an Independant Payment Advisory Board, which will essentially ration the countries healthcare. Yes, Sarah Palin was right, there will be Death Panels. See this video:

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56&load=8814

Also, and more importantly, ObamaCare is unconstitutional! Would anybody care to challenge this fact?

I see you are washed with Cold War propaganda. What happened in the USSR, China and North Korea is not communism. That is fascism. Communism advocates equality of all, not a select few. If you want to see what communism is, go to this (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=172091) page. Back on topic, hospitals are made to cover entire cities. Not even 10% of the city is at the hospitals, even during extreme cases each day. It should be centralized, and government ran. You will pay it, but have access to all health services. If you want a better service, buy a private insurance.
The problem is that this law doesn't let you keep your private insurance. That was one of the lies Obama said when he was trying to ram it through Congress.

You do know that all these problems could be solved if you simply allowed health care to be ran by the government.

That's exactly what this law does! And look how it's working out! You have the creators of it calling it a "train wreck"!

It's stupid having your health and well-being hinging on a insurance company- the insurance company doesn't want to be paying out 50,000 pounds for a new heart- they want to simply make as much money as possible.

And the cronies in Washington DC don't want to make money?You really think the people in charge of food stamps care anymore about feeding your family then the food companies? No, they want their six figure salary.

The profit incentive is good. It gives people a reason to do a good job.

You can call me a socialist, a hippie, a communist or whatever but there is a reason that America ranks 38th in the world in regards to health care.

Says who? Also, why are you defending our new healthcare system if it really makes our care so terrible?

"You do know that all these problems could be solved if you simply allowed <insert your industry here> to be ran by the government."

Classic communist rallying line.

Still wondering why people think this law is massive.


Dude, there's almost 3 million words in all the regulations in ObamaCare. That's two and a half times as many as there are in the Bible! You don't consider that massive?

Walter Powers
September 2nd, 2013, 02:55 PM
See last post.

Capto
September 2nd, 2013, 05:29 PM
Dude, there's almost 3 million words in all the regulations in ObamaCare. That's two and a half times as many as there are in the Bible! You don't consider that massive?

Pretty tiny.

Walter Powers
September 2nd, 2013, 07:12 PM
Pretty tiny.

Okay that's just stupid.

As a general rule, any piece of legislation that is so long nobody reads it before voting on it is bad.

You do know that all these problems could be solved if you simply allowed health care to be ran by the government.

It's stupid having your health and well-being hinging on a insurance company- the insurance company doesn't want to be paying out 50,000 pounds for a new heart- they want to simply make as much money as possible.

You can call me a socialist, a hippie, a communist or whatever but there is a reason that America ranks 38th in the world in regards to health care.

Also I think Senator Mccarthy would be very proud of your communist speech

Did you see my last post? Or are you gonna aknowlege ObamaCare is a bad law?

Vlerchan
September 3rd, 2013, 08:18 PM
Another thing I'd like to point out: This law will put in place an Independant Payment Advisory Board, which will essentially ration the countries healthcare. Yes, Sarah Palin was right, there will be Death Panels.
You mean there will be death panels like there always was? (http://www.salon.com/2009/08/11/denial_of_care/) Though ObamacareFacts (http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts.php) states that they're won't be any rationing; up to you whether you want to believe, though, I suppose.

Also, and more importantly, ObamaCare is unconstitutional! Would anybody care to challenge this fact?
Try the US Supreme Court. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_Independent_Business_v._Sebelius)

The problem is that this law doesn't let you keep your private insurance. That was one of the lies Obama said when he was trying to ram it through Congress.
I don't agree with that but then I don't exactly agree with the whole Affordable Care Act, anyway. As already stated above America need a proper, government run, universal health care system.

Though, technically, ObamaCare does allow you to keep your current healthcare just not to switch if your current company goes bust. You can stay with your current private healthcare as long as it stays in business

That's exactly what this law does! And look how it's working out! You have the creators of it calling it a "train wreck"!
They're calling it a trainwreck because it's not universal enough; not reaching out to enough people. (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/17/uh-oh-obamacare-author-warns-implementation-could-be-a-train-wreck/) That and it's being pushed through too fast (which I agree with); states won't have time to prepare. They're nothing trainwreck-y about most of the legislation.

Classic communist rallying line.
Heh.

Southside
September 3rd, 2013, 09:26 PM
I'm all for affordable healthcare but I dont think Obamacare is the right way to do it..

I'm for a government ran health system that all citizens can use/have access to.

It's really no argument against a universal healthcare system. Some of the top ranked countries for healthcare have universal healthcare systems..

Though I forgot Walt wants taxes lowered so everybody can donate to a charity funded healthcare system...

Walter Powers
September 11th, 2013, 07:22 PM
Did I mention the government won't be checking to see if you really qualify for ObamaCare subsidies? It will be completely honor system. Again, this is a train wreck.

You mean there will be death panels like there always was? (http://www.salon.com/2009/08/11/denial_of_care/) Though ObamacareFacts (http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts.php) states that they're won't be any rationing; up to you whether you want to believe, though, I suppose.

[ObamaCareFacts is a left wing site, genius. Of course they are going to say that.

Also, that is a very old article from 2009.

Try the US Supreme Court. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_Independent_Business_v._Sebelius)

The Supreme Court was wrong. The only reason it wasn't overturned is they called it a tax, even though it would never had passed had it been billed that. It is unconstitutional.

I don't agree with that but then I don't exactly agree with the whole Affordable Care Act, anyway. As already stated above America need a proper, government run, universal health care system.

Well the problem is that this is what you get when you want government to run healthcare.

Though, technically, ObamaCare does allow you to keep your current healthcare just not to switch if your current company goes bust. You can stay with your current private healthcare as long as it stays in business

Not if your company switches for you.


They're calling it a trainwreck because it's not universal enough; not reaching out to enough people. (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/17/uh-oh-obamacare-author-warns-implementation-could-be-a-train-wreck/) That and it's being pushed through too fast (which I agree with); states won't have time to prepare. They're nothing trainwreck-y about most of the legislation.




A train wreck's a train wreck.

I'm all for affordable healthcare but I dont think Obamacare is the right way to do it..

Well, this is the kind of quality and efficiency your gonna get if you put the federal government in charge of something like healthcare]

I'm for a government ran health system that all citizens can use/have access to.

It's really no argument against a universal healthcare system. Some of the top ranked countries for healthcare have universal healthcare systems..

Where did the King of Jordan go when he was dying for treatment? No, not France, not the UK, America!

Stronk Serb
September 12th, 2013, 03:17 AM
Did you see my last post? Or are you gonna aknowlege ObamaCare is a bad law?

The whole thing is a good idea, but it was implemented in a very bad way. If they taxed me more for health because I am a construction worker, I would take private insurance. In Serbia 5% of all workers' gross salaries go to the Ministry of Health and those same workers and their families get government insurance which is covering everything, from a headache to cancer and beyond.

Poisonberry
September 13th, 2013, 04:45 AM
What's your opinion on the so called "Affordable Care Act?" Do you think it's mostly a good piece of legislation, or that we're better off without it?


It's pointless fluff. "Everyone" being required to buy in really doesn't cover everyone, so it's going to be the same people paying for the healthcare of those that can't/don't want to. But now it'll be at the point of a gun, or the IRS, which is really the same thing.

Yes, in the land of unicorns and rainbows universal healthcare is a great idea, no one should have to suffer from any treatable malady. But so far no country has figured out how to make this truly work. It's a regrettable situation but until someone figures out how to really make quality healthcare appear out of thin air someone is going to have to pay. There just really is no such thing as free healthcare.

Vlerchan
September 14th, 2013, 11:40 AM
Snip.

I agree with most things you're saying (I think, anyway - we're pretty opposite on the whole political spectrum so I could be completely misunderstanding you here). America needs a universal healthcare system to match those that are currently being implemented in Europe. ObamaCare is a poor excuse for such a thing.

The King of Jordan isn't a French citizen and doesn't avail of their universal healthcare (I think, anyway). I assume that's why he went to America rather than France. France have an amazing healthcare system. (http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html)

But so far no country has figured out how to make this truly work.
Try Europe. It works pretty well there. Actually America is basically the only first world country - disregarding the hideously oil-rich OPEC nations - who don't have a universal healthcare system of some sort.

EDIT: Interesting Statistics.

Two-Thirds of bankruptcies filed stem from inability to pay medical bills. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2009/06/medical-bills-led-to-twothirds-of-bankruptcies-in-2007-study-finds.html)
And a whopping 45,000 American deaths a year are due to lack of health insurance. That's right: American people are dying in the name of Freedom and Competitively. (http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Health_amp_Fitness_11/article_6458.shtml)