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View Full Version : Your thoughts on the NSA and Ed Snowden?


Moondust
July 21st, 2013, 04:09 PM
Found out the other day that they are planning to keep on with what they were doing before. I personally think it's a violation of privacy and rights.
I also think that Edward Snowden is doing the right thing, but that's just my take.


How do you feel about all this?

Walter Powers
July 21st, 2013, 04:43 PM
I, honestly, am not sure.

Southside
July 21st, 2013, 05:12 PM
In my opinion, he is a hero of the American public. It's sad our own government is spying on us behind our back. NSA is a fucking joke...

Harry Smith
July 21st, 2013, 07:16 PM
Hero or Villain, he worked in a sensitive industry and he signed a contract. I'm not saying he's guilty I'm saying he should face a court and be tried because the accusations are very serious indeed

PinkFloyd
July 21st, 2013, 07:37 PM
He's a hero in my opinion.

Hypers
July 21st, 2013, 08:28 PM
My thoughts on the NSA: they shouldn't have any kind of privacy balancing. They should use other forms of action to prevent terrorism.

My thoughts on Snowden: contracts are contracts. If you can't respect and keep secrets, don't work for the NSA.

TheBigUnit
July 22nd, 2013, 01:37 AM
Hero or Villain, he worked in a sensitive industry and he signed a contract. I'm not saying he's guilty I'm saying he should face a court and be tried because the accusations are very serious indeed

exactly

snowden has no integrity what so ever, he commited treason, hes no hero really just an idiot he made some repercussions but thats it and he basically ruined not only his life but his familys too, I mean dont get me wrong I dont like having the gov watching over me but at this time and day it cant be helped

Stronk Serb
July 22nd, 2013, 02:53 AM
He raised awerness. He did nothing to stop it though. One man cannot do that much.

Korashk
July 22nd, 2013, 04:44 AM
Hero or Villain, he worked in a sensitive industry and he signed a contract. I'm not saying he's guilty I'm saying he should face a court and be tried because the accusations are very serious indeed
To be a contract the agreement must have you doing things that are legal, plus you don't ever go to criminal court for violating contracts.

Harry Smith
July 22nd, 2013, 08:02 AM
To be a contract the agreement must have you doing things that are legal, plus you don't ever go to criminal court for violating contracts.

He would of had to sign a non-disclosure cause, for example in Britain you enter the official secrets acts which allows you to be prosecuted for breaking it, so yes you can go to court for violating that.

The Attorney General has laid out the charges, he's broken US Law. If he was a paedophile or terrorist every would be demanding a manhunt. It doesn't matter what your job is, he's been accused of breaking the law

Danny_boi 16
July 22nd, 2013, 09:13 AM
What I think is that Edward Snowden is a traitor to the United States.

TheBigUnit
July 22nd, 2013, 10:53 AM
To be a contract the agreement must have you doing things that are legal, plus you don't ever go to criminal court for violating contracts.

It was treason

Korashk
July 22nd, 2013, 02:16 PM
He would of had to sign a non-disclosure cause, for example in Britain you enter the official secrets acts which allows you to be prosecuted for breaking it, so yes you can go to court for violating that.
The Official Secrets Act isn't a contract, it's a law. People will often symbolically agree to follow it, but it applies to you even if you don't sign the agreement.

The Attorney General has laid out the charges, he's broken US Law. If he was a paedophile or terrorist every would be demanding a manhunt. It doesn't matter what your job is, he's been accused of breaking the law
Snowden didn't even break the laws that they're charging him with because what he exposed was the government doing things that are patently illegal. That's how the legal system is supposed to work. The only reason he's even in trouble because it just happens to be the government doing the illegal thing and since they make the rules they get to break them.

What I think is that Edward Snowden is a traitor to the United States.
It was treason
Gah. I want to respond to these but the mods will yell at me.

lrg10002
July 22nd, 2013, 09:19 PM
Many people make such a big deal out of the whole "the government is snooping on everything you do ermegherrd!!!!" thing. In my opinion, we shouldn't be concerned about this one bit. In fact, we should feel safer.

What the government is doing with this data is building a large-scale model of "normal" human interactions. Without that model, terrorist motives (or "abnormal" behavior) would not be easy to identify.

The point here is: the government is too large to worry about what any single person is up to. It has soooo many priorities that it is useless to feel like you are being spied on when there are millions of others whose privacy has been "violated". Unless you're a terrorist, you should feel safe to post whatever you want wherever you want without feeling like the government is looking over your shoulder.

Southside
July 22nd, 2013, 09:21 PM
Many people make such a big deal out of the whole "the government is snooping on everything you do ermegherrd!!!!" thing. In my opinion, we shouldn't be concerned about this one bit. In fact, we should feel safer.

What the government is doing with this data is building a large-scale model of "normal" human interactions. Without that model, terrorist motives (or "abnormal" behavior) would not be easy to identify.

The point here is: the government is too large to worry about what any single person is up to. It has soooo many priorities that it is useless to feel like you are being spied on when there are millions of others whose privacy has been "violated". Unless you're a terrorist, you should feel safe to post whatever you want wherever you want without feeling like the government is looking over your shoulder.

I feel more threatened by my own government than any "terrorist", no one should be spied on behind their back.

Korashk
July 23rd, 2013, 12:10 AM
I feel more threatened by my own government than any "terrorist", no one should be spied on behind their back.
Exactly, statistically speaking you're more likely to be killed by a government employee (cop) than a terrorist. Plus it's the government's fault that most of the terrorists even exist in the first place.

lrg10002
July 23rd, 2013, 07:08 AM
Exactly, statistically speaking you're more likely to be killed by a government employee (cop) than a terrorist. Plus it's the government's fault that most of the terrorists even exist in the first place.

Well, the government is not the primary reason terrorists exist, but I'm not going to argue that.

As for the statistics: the number of people killed by police, in America, from 2003-2005, was 1,095 (http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=82). 2,753 were killed in 9/11 alone as a direct result of a terrorist attack. And it is almost impossible to put terrorists into any statistics, because of the infrequency and randomness of their attacks. This is exactly why the NSA is collecting this information- to build an arsenal of data to find and stop irregular behavior.

I obviously don't mind the whole snooping thing. The only problem I have with the NSA is that they kept the whole thing secret.

removeddddd
July 23rd, 2013, 07:15 AM
Definitely a hero, he freaking revealed that the government is spying on everyone. He is not the enemy...

Korashk
July 23rd, 2013, 12:58 PM
Well, the government is not the primary reason terrorists exist, but I'm not going to argue that.
Fine, the American government and Israeli government are virtually the only reason that Middle Eastern terrorists exist, as well as many domestic terrorists. This is a fact.

As for the statistics: the number of people killed by police, in America, from 2003-2005, was 1,095 (http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=82). 2,753 were killed in 9/11 alone as a direct result of a terrorist attack.
Okay...what about the rest of the years? The fact that in the span of THREE years cops killed nearly half as many people as the most deadly terrorist attack ever doesn't make them look good. Plus terrorists aren't killing unarmed people every week like cops do.

And it is almost impossible to put terrorists into any statistics, because of the infrequency and randomness of their attacks.
Umm...what? No it's not.

This is exactly why the NSA is collecting this information- to build an arsenal of data to find and stop irregular behavior.
Doing things like that just leads to more false positives than actual prevention of crime.

lrg10002
July 23rd, 2013, 08:53 PM
What I meant by terrorism being impossible to put to statistics is the statement you said earlier about it being more likely that one would be killed by a government official. Well, based on what we know about the limits and frequency of attacks, maybe, but a single unexpected event like 9/11 could change what we thought the limits of terrorism are. Maybe, from past data, one is more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. However, since terrorism is so unpredictable, those statistics could change in an instant.


Doing things like that just leads to more false positives than actual prevention of crime.

How do you measure "false positives"? How could one possibly prove that they outweigh the prevention of crime?


As for my opinion of Snowden, I don't think he should have been charged with the large heap of crimes he was burdened with. I don't think he was a hero in any way, but he did reveal information that should have been public in the first place. It may seem like my point of view is all over the place, but I agree with the snooping... but not with the fact that it was private.

Cygnus
July 23rd, 2013, 11:20 PM
He did what he thought was just (and it was), you cannot blame a person for that, especially because its the US thats loosing here, so let him have asylum in another country!